TOPIC: Class selection. First time and have some?

When I waitlist an event I come in with tokens for one badass heavy armor wearing mo fo. However because I am a waitlist I using end up playing the monk and have fun just the same.

jedibcg wrote: Sorry I misread it somewhere else. I thought it was in reverse order for everyone 3 and above.

That is how it is usually done in practice, and I wish they would update the rewards that way too. It solves the question neatly.

I wouldn't have any problem with them starting with the highest level people and working down to the lowest level people, but at a certain time before the run, be it 5 or 10 minutes or so, that it becomes first come first served. I only say this because of people jumping in at the last minute and causing a lot of disruption for the judge trying to get stats down, and the players.

As Raven stated it seems to work this way already, just because of social pressure.

Alvin Oliver wrote: but at a certain time before the run, be it 5 or 10 minutes or so, that it becomes first come first served. I only say this because of people jumping in at the last minute and causing a lot of disruption for the judge trying to get stats down, and the players.

Well, the issue is that experienced players are more likely to:

1. Not arrive early because they are already familiar with how everything works.

2. Attempting back-to-back runs (or volunteering right before a run), meaning they will arrive just on time.

3. Already have all their equipment and stats prepared beforehand, so filling out their portion of the party card is a quick matter of copying numbers.

Incognito wrote:

Alvin Oliver wrote: but at a certain time before the run, be it 5 or 10 minutes or so, that it becomes first come first served. I only say this because of people jumping in at the last minute and causing a lot of disruption for the judge trying to get stats down, and the players.

Well, the issue is that experienced players are more likely to:

1. Not arrive early because they are already familiar with how everything works.

2. Attempting back-to-back runs (or volunteering right before a run), meaning they will arrive just on time.

3. Already have all their equipment and stats prepared beforehand, so filling out their portion of the party card is a quick matter of copying numbers.

That is why there should be a certain point in time that it should be a first come first choice. If those that arrive early have to sit around and wait till minutes before they cannot spend time figuring out what tokens they need. There definitely needs to be a balance between the two. Already having their equipment can only work if you know what character you are playing. Showing up assuming you get the choice you want without know who else might be in your group is poor planning on your part no matter how seasoned of a player you are.

Usually our groups work out as much ahead of time as possible, then someone will help get a late-arriving colleague set up before they arrive.

Incognito wrote:
3. Already have all their equipment and stats prepared beforehand, so filling out their portion of the party card is a quick matter of copying numbers.

For the late arrival, maybe. But not if the coach has already filled in that character and has to start a new card. And what about the displaced player who now has to start from scratch with moments to go? How is it fair to someone who came early, got organized and is now stressed out because they have to scramble at the last second? At some point the late arrivals need to just pick from what's left out of common courtesy, regardless of their level or poor time management.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Incognito wrote:
3. Already have all their equipment and stats prepared beforehand, so filling out their portion of the party card is a quick matter of copying numbers.

For the late arrival, maybe. But not if the coach has already filled in that character and has to start a new card. And what about the displaced player who now has to start from scratch with moments to go? How is it fair to someone who came early, got organized and is now stressed out because they have to scramble at the last second? At some point the late arrivals need to just pick from what's left out of common courtesy, regardless of their level or poor time management.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

One thing I do know is that if a group is doing a run and someone will be late that is playing the cleric, they will say, "Hey we already have a cleric coming, who's 5th and Purped out." and will see if the player can play something else. From what I've seen though it tends to work itself out.

Raven has it nailed.

As to the other stuff, In the past there was comming in "not early" and there was comming in LATE. Now its much more obvious.

In all my years of playing I came in not early once and bumped a new player out of my chosen class.

Last year my group had a couple of conflicts with others, we used level to resolve one issue and on the other all players were above lvl 3 so that just became an issue of who could switch out to another class the most efficently. Turns out a Rogue can become a Paladin shockingly quick

Picc wrote:

Toran wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:
I did get stuck in a group back in... 2009? where we had half of the tickets and the other half were taken by an outside group. The other group had shown up 2 hours before start time because they "didn't have anything better to do" and had taken every single one of the melee slider classes.

I cant even begin to understand how you can hang around at gen con for two hours with nothing better to do XD

I second that!

Incognito wrote:

darkangel866 wrote: So to actually answer Incognito's question:

3rd + level players always get to pick their class before the lower level players. If Monk was my 5th choice, and the other four players above 3rd level picked my first 4 choices, I can choose to take monk away from a new player. (As I still get to choose before they do).

Yeah, but my question is what if you have 10 players (A through J), each player is 3rd level, and their preferences are:

A: Barbarian
B: Bard
C: Cleric
D: Druid
E: Fighter (Dwarf)
F: Fighter (Human)
G: Monk
H: Paladin
I: Ranger
J: #1: Barbarian, #2: Bard, #3: Cleric, #4: Druid, #5: Dwarf Fighter, etc.

A & J roll off and A gets to be Barbarian. Now does J have a chance for his second choice (Bard), which B also wants. Or at this point is J already forced to choose among the 3 leftover classes (Rogue, Wizard, Elf Wizard)?

From a "fairness" standpoint, it seems like it might be "better" for everyone to get their second choice, than for 9 people to get their 1st choice, and the 10th person to get their 10th choice.

Then again, if J gets to roll off with B for Bard, you have the potential possibility that J wins, and then B gets to compete for his second choice, which could be the Barbarian which A won a rolloff (against J) for. So you could get some circularity.

so, raven gave a great summary of the way things usually work in practice, but what about in theory? academically, how do you resolve disputes over classes?

i suggest we just go back to the official rule, which says that players 3+ level roll off to pick classes. note: it doesnt say that ONLY 2 players roll off for the one class. if i was the coach for a party that had a persistent conflict over a class, i would have EVERYONE level 3+ roll the die. Of the two in conflict over the class, whoever rolled lower has to pick another class, and cannot take a class from anyone who rolled higher than they did.

kurtreznor wrote: i suggest we just go back to the official rule, which says that players 3+ level roll off to pick classes. note: it doesnt say that ONLY 2 players roll off for the one class. if i was the coach for a party that had a persistent conflict over a class, i would have EVERYONE level 3+ roll the die. Of the two in conflict over the class, whoever rolled lower has to pick another class, and cannot take a class from anyone who rolled higher than they did.

Yes, something streamlined like that would be good. For example:

Everyone Level 3+ rolls a d20, and then everyone takes turn picking their class based on their die roll (a "20" chooses first, a "1" chooses last). That would make things much more clear cut in situations where people can't agree.