Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
Archive

TOPIC: Please change Keen Edge scroll

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #13

In an effort to get at the true impact of this scroll, here is some very UNscientific analysis. The chance of getting a 19 on each slide is say 10% for a very good slider. Assuming that a fighter is using a Great Sword (1d10), he does on average 5.5 damage per swing plus bonuses. So on a 19 he does (5.5)x2+10? Feel free to check my math.

So this is an additional 21-5.5hp or roughly 15hp. Now, assuming combat is 8 rounds, this translates to roughly 8*0.10*15 or 12hps additional damage over the course of a battle.

Of course this makes a lot of assumptions but it is certainly a good thing to have if you are a pro-puck slider. :)
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #14

It is still pretty weak - it would be great (IMHO) if you could bless a weapon and it lasted the entire adventure.

I mean I know we are using hybrid rules but those of us learning or playing 3.5 ed know that some normal slashing weapons have CRITs on 19 or 20 normally. (Yes I am learning 3.5 ed. just because of TD and TD can quote me on that to Wizards if they want.)

Keen Edge is one of the worst Very Rares...it needs a bit of help, just my opinion - stinks as it may.
Gary aka: Grimwood, Cleric of the Western Woods CLERIC for life - I have the character card to prove it! Former owner of a Ring of Three Wishes and Jeff's finger!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #15

The fighter’s power attack currently adds +5 to damage, but only if a 19 or 20 is achieved. If a 20 is “rolled� it adds an additional +10 to the double damage achieved for a critical hit. It appears that with Keen Edge that the power attack would allow +10 to both a 19 and 20 plus the double damage, unless I am interpreting it wrong.

Dave


Is the Power Attack adding +5 damage a standard 3.5 rule? I looked all over the 3.5 players manual and could not find it. (This does not mean it isn't there. It just means I could not find it.) The only reference to the power attack feat was something else (sorry I did not bring my players handbook into work)

Just like you Gary, TD is forcing me to learn the 3.5 rules. I normally play 1.0 (with first edition/first printing books no less).

George
It is said your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true. It's called Life. - Terry Pratchett

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #16

I burned over $200 on 3.5 books on a popular online book company. Very pleased with the 3.5 books and rules.

HEY JEFF - will Golden TIX holders be able to get autographs from anyone at Wizards??? Can we bring 3.5 books for them to sign?
Gary aka: Grimwood, Cleric of the Western Woods CLERIC for life - I have the character card to prove it! Former owner of a Ring of Three Wishes and Jeff's finger!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #17

First Point: Good discussion point. It will be important to make sure figuring damage is done on a consistent basis across DM's and that items are well understood.

Second Point: I have to admit that parts of this thread makes me a little uneasy... one of the primary things that drew me to TD is that it is about WE the PLAYERS and not a stack of rule books. I too am a old gamer and still have a stack of early edition guides plus some newer ones, but as the TD overview said this is a "variant".

I personally feel that we need to be careful and try to keep TD from becoming over-laden with rules and minutiae. (This is a fear I have expressed in other threads as well, but don't get me wrong, some clear rules and guidelines are needed for consistency.) As a player and a DM, it would hurt the atmosphere and dissapoint me if a "rules-lawyer" (I like that term George) starts arguing about a special feat/bonus/skill/rule allowed in edition X on page YY.

Remember, TD was created to include non-D&D gamers too.

(Please, do not read this as a gripe. It is not! Just my humble opinion on the matter. :) )
Cheers, Stuart O.  + Thats the short haired, short statured, no beard, Indy Stu ...+ "Nemo saltat sobrius"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #18

Point of clarification from my perspective...

I got 3.5 rule books of my own free will - I was not forced by TD - I actually wanted to pick up the game again because of playing TD, and my Brother-in-law has been telling me how much better the game is since Wizards took over.... (nice plug #2)

Now that is not without saying I wanted to learn if a 22 AC was good or bad and what a CL3 is...but I digress.

Like I said in an earlier post - we are playing hybrid rules - and aside from knowing what tokens can do and how they work - I am not a player who boggs down in the formulas for calculating exactly how far a person can jump carrying 65.2 pounds and running at a speed of 20ft?

Stu, it is a good gripe - I think most players are low-key'd and do not even think about getting into a TIFF with any room DM...(talk about suicidal gamer!)

TD is a game based on having fun not playing the rules to the letter - don't we all think so???
Gary aka: Grimwood, Cleric of the Western Woods CLERIC for life - I have the character card to prove it! Former owner of a Ring of Three Wishes and Jeff's finger!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #19

3.5 does have some good stuff. :D And it would be neat to get the books autographed by some WoTC VIPs... ;)

TD is a game based on having fun not playing the rules to the letter - don't we all think so???


And I couldn't agree more!
Cheers, Stuart O.  + Thats the short haired, short statured, no beard, Indy Stu ...+ "Nemo saltat sobrius"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #20

MAGIC 300!

3.5 does have some good stuff. :D And it would be neat to get the books autographed by some WoTC VIPs... ;)


What say you Jeff - is this some Magic you can arrange???
Gary aka: Grimwood, Cleric of the Western Woods CLERIC for life - I have the character card to prove it! Former owner of a Ring of Three Wishes and Jeff's finger!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #21

First Point: Good discussion point. It will be important to make sure figuring damage is done on a consistent basis across DM's and that items are well understood.

Second Point: I have to admit that parts of this thread makes me a little uneasy... one of the primary things that drew me to TD is that it is about WE the PLAYERS and not a stack of rule books. I too am a old gamer and still have a stack of early edition guides plus some newer ones, but as the TD overview said this is a "variant".

I personally feel that we need to be careful and try to keep TD from becoming over-laden with rules and minutiae. (This is a fear I have expressed in other threads as well, but don't get me wrong, some clear rules and guidelines are needed for consistency.) As a player and a DM, it would hurt the atmosphere and dissapoint me if a "rules-lawyer" (I like that term George) starts arguing about a special feat/bonus/skill/rule allowed in edition X on page YY.

Remember, TD was created to include non-D&D gamers too.

(Please, do not read this as a gripe. It is not! Just my humble opinion on the matter. :) )


Indy,
I am not trying to argue the rules, I am trying understand them. And a very acceptable answer to my question is that the +5 Power bonus is a TD rule. That works to me. I am just trying to get a feel on what the token can and cannot do.

From my reading of the FAQ I believe "Keen Edge" can only improve a weapon by double the normal damage (1-8, 1-10, etc, the term normal damage is defined (by implication) in the 3.5 rule set). If it is more powerful then it would be VERY helpful to change the FAQ to fact to reflect that. The text in the FAQ reads, "All critical hits deliver double normal damage". If you want feats and/or magical bonuses to be doubled, it would be easy to change the wording of the FAQ.

One big difference between what I am going and "rules lawyering" is that I am trying to get these issued resolved before the dungeon starts. Most "rules Lawyers" bring up their issues during the game (and only when it is their advantage).

Now that I have my manual in hand. The 3.5 manual says the power attack feat can increase the damage by reducing the accuracy of an attack. Basically for every point in accuracy you give up, you get a point of damage. But the amount you can trade is limited by your characters level and class. A level one fighter (+paladin+ranger) can only trade -1 accuracy for +1 damage. Level 2 can do -2 and +2, up to level 5.

(Again if Jeff wants to say he can trade 5, then he can trade 5, but please, please, please, make sure that change is on the character sheet or somewhere that both the player and DM will both know about.)

The only reason I am continuing to debate this point is that Jeff (with his complete understanding of the rules) thinks this scroll is valueable. I (with my limited understanding) think is not.

So what I really want is enlightenment.

George
It is said your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true. It's called Life. - Terry Pratchett

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #22

George,
You can say that the power attack rule is a TD interpretation.

Jeff will have to comment eventually, but this is my take:

To remove complexity, the option to commit all or to a degree was removed, making the choice an all or nothing kind of attack. The fact you must hit a 19 or 20, and all other scores are misses (regardless of the monsters AC) is reflective of the loss of ability as the character throws everything into a concentrated effort. In return, successful hits are granted bonuses for this +5 or +10 to damage. Using this with Keen Edge slides the definition for a critical hit to a 19 or 20. I would interpret this as meaning both then would give the +10 to damage + the usual double damage of a critical hit.

Does that make sense, or am I failing to explain properly.

As before, this is how I interpret it, Jeff will have to make the final call and the DMs will be notified how this should be handled.

Dave
You should know better than to pick up a duck in a dungeon....

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #23

I would like to echo the setiment by Stuart and others that TD should NOT be bogged down by D&D rules. Rather, it should capture the essence of D&D, the feeling of adventuring in the world of D&D.

Beyond that, TD should make choices independent of the rules, that best suit the environment and maximize the fun during gameplay. D&D should be the back drop, not the core.

My 3-cents on this subject,
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please change Keen Edge scroll 15 years 6 months ago #24

This may be wishful thinking but how would a +1 weapon interact with a keen edge scroll? If I hit a 18, would it count as a 19? Continuing this line of thought, if this were a fighter's power attack, would a 18 count as a 19?
I'm just thinking that using my +1 great battleaxe I could do up to 21 damage on a 18 hit! :D
David
"Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." Abe Lincoln

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.196 seconds