TOPIC: Arcane Recipe <=Artifact Creation Token

<br />Why don't we just petition for one of the '10 ultra rares to be a ring that gives +1 ac and +1 to saves. Then people could just swap in the UR RoP for one of those. It makes for a good UR all around. Not hugely powerful, and more of a balance between the RoP and the save rings. Not a bad item to have around for general purposes.<br />

<br /><br />How about we call it the Ring of 'Enwii.  I'd say that people that have the woodie should be given the opportunity to swap one for one with a '10 Ring - if you choose not to swap, then you've still got a purp +1 RoP for your collection.  Makes things more consistent in the long haul.  And there's few enough of the woodie rings around that it won't mess up Jeff too much in the PYP dept.<br /><br />We have to remember this in Sept./Oct.<br /><br />

<br />While I can see the issue with "I traded for it at value X and that changed"  you have to realize that's going to happen.<br /><br />Suppose you trade me for 100 Token X's at say 100g each.  cause you think they look cool or whatever.<br /><br />Next year Dave lists Token X as an ingredient for Combo Y which is awesome.  Their value just increased.<br /><br />or a Near duplicate gets printed later that is slightly better.. their value just went down.<br /><br />While I agree that we should be mindful of those changes, and try not to cause them, or try not to make them overly great; thinking it's not going to happen is wishful at best.<br /><br />Particularly now that we have at least one person who's selling on the secondary market "professionaly".  The prices are going to get Dictated by the market... and as the market changes, so will those prices.<br /><br /> Complaining that Token X isn't worth what it was is slightly more productive than say Gas cost's too much.<br />JMO<br />

<br /><br />Good point - the Amulet of Thorns is a great example.  Last year they were out of print, and a couple sold for around $30 each.  This year they are back in print, and are going for about 99 cents.  A couple of years ago the top couple of PURPs were the Dragonscale Shield and Gearon's +2 Mace.  Now (for some classes) the Dragonscale Shield has been superceded by the +1 Tower Shield plus it's back in print, and the woodie Gearon's +2 Mace has been superceded by a better Chippie +2 Gearon's Mace.  Values of tokens are constantly going up and down pretty dramatically. 

This again? There's a difference between doing something which will cause the market to reassess the value of a token or item and setting the value of the token or item. The line which should not be crossed is one where TD dictates a set price for something that's been free trading up to that point. So the whole idea of setting a value for dwarven steel at 25 gp or whatever is what's verboten. The rest has been done from the beginning and all that matters there is the merits. If there's justification that outweighs the negatives, then it should proceed. The red line isn't there.

Henwy, I listed the benefits of letting trade tokens be used in some auctions at some preset GP value - the players benefit because their tokens have more value, and they can do something with those piles of trade tokens instead of letting them sit, and True Dungeon benefits because it gets a LOT more tokens out of circulation, encouraging more token buying.  You keep insisting that it can't be done, because it's never been done, but haven't shown any harm that would outweigh the benefits.  As I said before, we'll have to agree to disagree.<br /><br />But, that aside, from reading your posts, it doesn't seem that you'd have a problem with a second auction being held, with Trade Item Tokens being used to bid for items, since that is equivalent to the GP auctions, which you had no problem with.  Is that correct?  That would seem to be a good compromise - it allows Trade Items to be used in an auction for items, but doesn't assign any GP value to them.  Plus, it makes sense from a "flavor" point of vew also.  We're a bunch of traders rich in these Trade Item Tokens, and some outside trader comes in that would like those Trade Item Tokens, so he auctions off a bunch of stuff for the Trade Item Tokens.  It's just like the GP auctions, except instead of money, it's more like a barter system.  What do you think of that? 

I'm insisting it can't be done because it's wrong to for TD to arbitrarily and newly assign existing tokens a GP value. TD should not be setting the value of trade tokens. THe whole point early on was to not peg them to GP. It'd be stupid to do so now for no real gain. The combo tokens are finalyl going to start draining the trade tokens out so why in the world would you add something new even before seeing how the previous setup worked? If there are few trades for combo tokens this year, then perhaps it's something to consider but I'm more than willing to take that bet. Besides it being wrong, it's just daft.<br /><br />And no, I don't support a second auction. I see no reason for it when we haven't even see how combos do this year, the first where trade items are being consumed. It's a strange idea even on its face. Why would we have an auction using trade items? What's next? An auction using only potions? We could have an auction where the person who bids the most potions of cure light wounds gets something. I dunno why, but at least sounds quirky.

Geez, this is a great debate and I'm sorry now that I missed the six pages of it. All in all, I have to say that Gary's focus on keeping the D+D and adventuring flavor in this process sounds like the right way to go to me, and Henwy always seems to have the most accurate dose of reality. In my opinion, whatever is done with this process, there should be ample opportunity for participation by those that have not made major financial stakes in the game, and there should be lots of opportunity for luck to play a role in reward. Jeff has his ways of rewarding his faithful, and I think all of the faithful have experienced that reward in one way or another. Let's make sure the public portion of the game stays open to all participants. Favoring some people over others sucks and it sucks the most when everyone can see it in plain daylight. This is just my two cents. I don't have a major personal stake in how this gets decided.

<br />I'm insisting it can't be done because it's wrong to for TD to arbitrarily and newly assign existing tokens a GP value. TD should not be setting the value of trade tokens. THe whole point early on was to not peg them to GP. It'd be stupid to do so now for no real gain. The combo tokens are finalyl going to start draining the trade tokens out so why in the world would you add something new even before seeing how the previous setup worked? If there are few trades for combo tokens this year, then perhaps it's something to consider but I'm more than willing to take that bet. Besides it being wrong, it's just daft.<br /><br />And no, I don't support a second auction. I see no reason for it when we haven't even see how combos do this year, the first where trade items are being consumed. It's a strange idea even on its face. Why would we have an auction using trade items? What's next? An auction using only potions? We could have an auction where the person who bids the most potions of cure light wounds gets something. I dunno why, but at least sounds quirky.<br />

<br /><br />I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then on pretty much every aspect of the discussion  =)<br /><br />It's a good debate though, and Jeff & Dave will certainly be able to see both sides of the issue. 

Good point - the Amulet of Thorns is a great example.  Last year they were out of print, and a couple sold for around $30 each.  This year they are back in print, and are going for about 99 cents. 

Hey Mike,<br /><br />I'll give you 99 cents for one.

<br />

Good point - the Amulet of Thorns is a great example.  Last year they were out of print, and a couple sold for around $30 each.  This year they are back in print, and are going for about 99 cents. 

Hey Mike,<br /><br />I'll give you 99 cents for one.<br />

<br /><br />Thanks, but I think I'll hold onto the ones I've still got for now  =)

Getting back on track...<br /><br />

<br />I like the idea of 2 in the treasure pull, 1 auctioned off.  This eliminates proxy bidders so someone can't just buy 2.<br />

<br /><br />I agree.  The people who have the money to buy tons of tokens and have the ability to trade out for a bunch of GP already have ample bonuses available to them.<br />Still, those who hog up a magnitude of run slots still get more chances to pull them, but we poor people are not denied the chance.<br /><br />Also, if the artifact creation tokens have a long enough shelf life (i.e. you have a while to turn them in) then you can decide whether or not you can manage getting the ingredients together to create the item without causing yourself too much worry.  Perhaps you might not have them handy, but there is no harm in trying to get some friends together to pitch in - you'll get a nice, new artifact, and they will have clean, shiny cars and fresh, folded laundry for the next 6 months.  =]

Getting back off track....<br /><br />I want a choklit pony.

<br />Getting back off track....<br /><br />I want a choklit pony.<br />

<br /><br /> Granted.. But it's melted.<br /><br /> I want a beer