TOPIC: About Power Creep . . .

I thought it was a recommendation too. I don't support incorporating requirements, just being highly informative of what to expect, so that a good decision can be made by players.

I think any more levels than 2 is going to increase the complexity of the dungeon unacceptably.  I thought the coaches did a good job of explaining the differences and letting the parties choose.<br />

Could make it so the party decides its challenge level then, rather than it being determined by the DM. But a level or two in between normal and nightmare would be a great improvment I think. And not hard for the DM's to handle. The monsters would just have 3-4 columns of stats. Pick the right party level column and go.<br /><br />

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<br />But you have people complaining now - the dungeon was too easy, the dungeon was too hard.  If you are trying to limit complaints, than wouldn't a Recommended Equipment Level be helpful?  <br />

<br /><br />It might, but it would be a monumental headache and pain the ass to try and implement, not only because of the of a hassle of the coaches having to check everyone's tokens (and everyone having to pull tokens out of pockets and such!) but also of determining just exactly what equipment determines your difficulty level.  Also having level determined by equipment just isn't fair.  After all, if people want to "purp out" and be well nigh invulnerable on a Normal run then that is their right.  Some people enjoy that.  Some don't.  Some people will seek to challenge themselves, such as choosing a dagger only for their equipment.<br /><br />I think that at the moment True Dungeon is on the right track with letting people choose either Normal or Nightmare mode.  Another option for True Dungeon is to brinng back Hardcore and maybe add a few more tiers above Nightmare and again let the people  decide.  If people had the change to go on an Armageddon run where the Mind Flayer would have had 125 hit points you can bet that some people would have opted for that run.  <br /><br />No matter the solution it would be almost completely unfeasible for True Dungeon to try and match an appropriate level based on the gear being used.<br />

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<br />But you have people complaining now - the dungeon was too easy, the dungeon was too hard.  If you are trying to limit complaints, than wouldn't a Recommended Equipment Level be helpful?  <br />

<br />I think that at the moment True Dungeon is on the right track with letting people choose either Normal or Nightmare mode.  Another option for True Dungeon is to brinng back Hardcore and maybe add a few more tiers above Nightmare and again let the people  decide.  If people had the change to go on an Armageddon run where the Mind Flayer would have had 125 hit points you can bet that some people would have opted for that run.  <br />

<br /><br />I thought we were talking about recommendations - not requirements.  Maybe I misunderstood.<br />

  My mistake.  Sorry.<br /><br />But, the point still stands that it would be a monumental pain in the ass to try and incorporate it while in the marshalling area and/or the training room.

I think more levels would allow players to get just the right feel, but I also think that it would become a lot for coaches and DM's to have separate info for. If everyone automatically memorized, then it'd run great, but the realistic expectation would be to have multiple sets of written stats that they would have to somehow have on hand and keep sorted. More pages to try to keep from walking off in the training room with suggested equipment lists for each level, etc. I think it's a great idea, but the execution would probably be harder than expected.

<br />I think any more levels than 2 is going to increase the complexity of the dungeon unacceptably.  I thought the coaches did a good job of explaining the differences and letting the parties choose.<br /><br />

<br /><br />I think that they could explain even more power levels quite easily.  For example, the coaches could simply state, "We have Normal, Hardcore, Nightmare, and Armageddon Modes.  In Hardcore monsters have 50% more hit points plus 1 extra point of Armor Class.  Nightmare monsters have 100% more h.p. and +2 A.C. and in Armageddon it is 150% more hit points and +3 A.C."  There could even be hand outs on the tables in the marshalling area that show a mosnter four times (and in each case the monster is better equipped and/or looks meaner) and show the corresponding hit points and AC for each monster.  After that you give the listed hit points and A.C. to the room DM's and they can track it from there.

<br />But you have people complaining now - the dungeon was too easy, the dungeon was too hard.  If you are trying to limit complaints, than wouldn't a Recommended Equipment Level be helpful?  <br />

<br /><br />Are there complaints?  I know I thought the dungeon was a tad easier than I expected...but then again I was expecting instant death traps in room 5...<br /><br />I am not complaining that the dungeon was easy - I know the monsters were definatley tougher - so in that respect I saw more difficulty added in combat situations!  As far as the puzzles go - well I run with a smart group so that is a hard thing to measure!

<br />I think more levels would allow players to get just the right feel, but I also think that it would become a lot for coaches and DM's to have separate info for. If everyone automatically memorized, then it'd run great, but the realistic expectation would be to have multiple sets of written stats that they would have to somehow have on hand and keep sorted. More pages to try to keep from walking off in the training room with suggested equipment lists for each level, etc. I think it's a great idea, but the execution would probably be harder than expected. <br />

 Which is why I think that if there are more power levels that True Dungeon not define them in any way associated with equipment.  Let the people choose the power level that they want, be it Normal, Hardcore, Nightmare, Armageddon, Hades, Filing Your Taxes, etc.  Just clearly explain the power boost associated with each level, and given a simple mathematical formula that becomes very easy.

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<br />I think any more levels than 2 is going to increase the complexity of the dungeon unacceptably.  I thought the coaches did a good job of explaining the differences and letting the parties choose.<br /><br />

<br /><br />I think that they could explain even more power levels quite easily.  For example, the coaches could simply state, "We have Normal, Hardcore, Nightmare, and Armageddon Modes.  In Hardcore monsters have 50% more hit points plus 1 extra point of Armor Class.  Nightmare monsters have 100% more h.p. and +2 A.C. and in Armageddon it is 150% more hit points and +3 A.C."  There could even be hand outs on the tables in the marshalling area that show a mosnter four times (and in each case the monster is better equipped and/or looks meaner) and show the corresponding hit points and AC for each monster.  After that you give the listed hit points and A.C. to the room DM's and they can track it from there.<br />

<br /><br />I would agree - this would be the best way to set the expectation of the customer...do not try to intrepret their token counts, or player experience or inteligence or anything complicated...<br /><br />Just post the things that TD controlls and have the customer decide based on those facts and information that they have to weigh.<br /><br />IF (REALLY BIG IF) the customers have no clue what to play - they will ask and put the coach on the spot.  Will and I trained our team to phrase their answer carefully - and put things to the group as a recommendation - and then to say it was still up to the entire group to decide.

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<br />But you have people complaining now - the dungeon was too easy, the dungeon was too hard.  If you are trying to limit complaints, than wouldn't a Recommended Equipment Level be helpful?  <br />

<br /><br />Are there complaints?  I know I thought the dungeon was a tad easier than I expected...but then again I was expecting instant death traps in room 5...<br /><br />I am not complaining that the dungeon was easy - I know the monsters were definatley tougher - so in that respect I saw more difficulty added in combat situations!  As far as the puzzles go - well I run with a smart group so that is a hard thing to measure!<br />

<br /><br />It was touch and go for a few characters during my Nightmare Combat run and one person did die (but was brought back from the dead).  But, regardless of whether or not people found Nightmare easy I think that True Dungeon should bring back Hard Core and add another level above Nightmare.  Giving more options like this can only increase the enjoyability of the game.  <br /><br />The only downside is how to handle the survivor buttons.  One way to handle buttons might be to have the standard Survivor button and then have much smaller (1" diameter) buttons that list the power level plus the year or have ribbons that you can attach to the bottom of the Survivor button.  I think it would be neat to have a simple True Dungeon button for participating and then have hanging under it several rows of ribbons showing the various runs that I did and that I survived.

Just for fun, a proposed Power Level handout for True Dungeon:<br /><br />

<br />It was touch and go for a few characters during my Nightmare Combat run and one person did die (but was brought back from the dead).  But, regardless of whether or not people found Nightmare easy I think that True Dungeon should bring back Hard Core and add another level above Nightmare.  Giving more options like this can only increase the enjoyability of the game.  <br /><br />The only downside is how to handle the survivor buttons.  One way to handle buttons might be to have the standard Survivor button and then have much smaller (1" diameter) buttons that list the power level plus the year or have ribbons that you can attach to the bottom of the Survivor button.  I think it would be neat to have a simple True Dungeon button for participating and then have hanging under it several rows of ribbons showing the various runs that I did and that I survived.<br />

<br /><br />One potential problem with having more than 2 difficulty levels (and corresponding rewards for each) is that completists will feel "obligated" to play (and complete) each level. Those players will then complain about how many runs they have to do (despite the fact that they don't *have* to do every single level). But this will also result in those individuals taking out a whole lot more runs than they already do, which decreases the number of available tickets for newbies.