TOPIC: About Power Creep . . .

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<br />Heres a crazy idea. What if each party was given a effective party level based on its level of equipment (number of purples, average AC, etc.) and player levels. And in the dungeon the encounters are scaled based on the party level. So a monster might have higher hit points, AC and to hit if the party level is say level 3 vs. level 1. It would be pretty easy to come up with a formula to set the partys effective level in the prep room. It could be written on the party card and the DM's could have a set of stats for each monster based on party level (similar to normal vs nightmare).<br /><br />Either that or a rust monster would take care of that power creep in a flash.<br />

And that would add yet one more thing that would have to be taken care of in the marshalling area or in the training room.<br />

<br /><br />Does that mean the coaches get a pet rust monster?

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<br />Heres a crazy idea. What if each party was given a effective party level based on its level of equipment (number of purples, average AC, etc.) and player levels. And in the dungeon the encounters are scaled based on the party level. So a monster might have higher hit points, AC and to hit if the party level is say level 3 vs. level 1. It would be pretty easy to come up with a formula to set the partys effective level in the prep room. It could be written on the party card and the DM's could have a set of stats for each monster based on party level (similar to normal vs nightmare).<br /><br />Either that or a rust monster would take care of that power creep in a flash.<br />

And that would add yet one more thing that would have to be taken care of in the marshalling area or in the training room.<br />

<br /><br />That's OK we Player Coaches can do anything asked of us!!  PLAYER COACHES RULE!

<br />Does that mean the coaches get a pet rust monster? <br />

<br /><br />We have worse pets at our disposal!

Man, I didn't know we spot available!  (ref: Munsters)

Jeesh, this thread has started and grown quickly!  And it hasn't even been hijacked yet!<br />

<br />[soapbox rant]<br />I don't know, I read this topic  as 'punish those with tokens'.  <br /><br />Tokens do not help solve puzzles (except where props are required), tokens do not make you slide better, or think better.  What they do is make it when you mess up, or that your sliders suck, or you fail to solve that puzzle, more survivable.  And in the worst case the tokens can help you survive even the greatest threat, death.  <br /><br />When you can only get one or two tickets to an event that occurs only once a year, would you rather be over-prepared so when you go through you can enjoy the event all the way through, or under-prepared where even the first room can spell your doom (Axe meets Monk).  <br /><br />Those who have the most in the way of tokens put alot of money into the coffers of True Dungeon.  Some do it because they like collecting Shiney objects, others do it give them and their friends an edge so that the Dungeon can be survivable.  If the players want more a of a challenge, as been said already, let them put their own handicaps on. <br /><br />If they want to go in on 'easy mode' then let them, the puzzles will be just as hard as for them as well as the group going through on just the gear they pulled at the start.  Putting artifical caps on those who have had the blessing having resources to buy their way to near invulnerability penalizes some of the strongest supporters of TD, when it comes to finances.  <br /><br />I see this as something TD does not need to police, but rather a player choice.  The designers of the game have already implemented Nightmare Mode as a way to provide those who have reached 'Power Creep' caps a challenge.  Since this was our first year with nightmare and no-where have I read 'Nightmare was too easy' by even those who had complained last year about Hardcore, leads me to believe that Nightmare was just right for those who have all the Purples they could want (for now).<br /><br />I can see that if the arguement is now Nightmare is too hard for those midway through the Token acquisition process (lots of rares, but few, if any, URs) then I see that as motivation to those that are pure Red to start looking at aquiring a purple a year.<br /><br />Again, I don't see it as TD's responsibility to put caps on the players to make it more of a challenge, instead if the top end groups start complaining TD:Nightmare is too easy, then its time to see if TD:Nightmare might become TD:Hell On Earth.  Let the token rich have their fun, but do not penalize them and their purchasing decisions.<br /><br />[/soapbox rant]<br />

<br /><br />I totally agree with greyseer.  The people who are complaining about power creep are the top 1% players.  There are still several thousand of us who want no restrictions.  If it's too easy for you, go commando nightmare.  I outfit my entire group and I (being a token-holic) have many URs.  Our group was well outfitted with 4 players at greater than AC20.  Yet, we still had a hell of a time defeating that mind-flayer in normal mode (it didn't help that our Barbarian and Fighter got stunned nor did it help that the rest of us couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.  I swear they greased that board just before we got there!  LOL!!!!!!!!)<br /><br />And a huge number of tokens doesn't help solve the puzzles.<br /><br />All of the options regarding character level, token level seem wayyyyyyy too complicated and time consuming (and could hurt TD's bottom line).  I agree with the comments about having items that make consumables more useful.  I too thought the Belt of Retrieval was a GREAT addition.  <br />

The people who are complaining about power creep are the top 1% players.  There are still several thousand of us who want no restrictions. 

<br /><br />It doesn't matter if power creep only affects the top 1% players.  If True Dungeon puts a cap on the max AC available through tokens and such then it won't affect the other 99% of the players.  So long as True Dungeon sets it up so that the same power levels are available, either through the same tokens or similar ones, then the other 99% can still have the potential to rise to that top 1%.  The only way that those 99% of the players will be adversely affected is if True Dungeon starts to decrease the maximum power level attainable through tokens.  <br /><br />=====================<br /><br />To m it serves no real purpose to keep pushing the envelope so that the max A.C. available keeps going upwards.  As it is now there is a good chance that some players can go through a dungeon run without the monsters being able to hit them.  I don't know about anyone else but I absolutely do NOT want to walk through a Dungeon (be it True Dungeon or good old pen & paper D&D) knowing that my character is can't be hit and is well nigh indesctructable.  A sense of mortality is one of the aspects that lets me enjoy True Dungeon.

<br />I swear they greased that board just before we got there!  LOL!!!!!!!!)<br />

<br /><br />No kidding... that was a FAST board!<br />

Incognito:  Giving Mages an AC close to the party still doesn't seem unbalancing to me.  Mage Armor replaces armor (at least in D&D), so if a bard wants to wear Mage Armor instead of Armor, then let them.  The bottom line is more tokens used = more tokens sold.  I am guessing that token sales help get more and more cool effects for us from year to year.  So I want more tokens sold!<br /><br />greyseer, I did not mean to crucify people with many tokens, in fact, I meant the opposite.  I have bought about 300$ worth of tokens.  With what I have, I really don't need to buy more.  But I want to, and intend to buy enough in April for a GTR.  The reason I started this topic was to get a discussion going about how to make tokens that are powerful and exciting, without overpowering the casual token buyer.  I also was hoping that other people would give suggestions on how to manage the dungeon, so that power creep does not get out of control.<br /><br />JimC:  I'm not exactly complaining about power creep, yet.  I hope that it will never get to the point where I have to.  Call it a preventative strike  =D.  The Mind Flayer was one of the rooms I was thinking about in my original post (an esoteric challenge within the dungeon).<br /><br />

Dis Bee Leaf wrote: <br />One critical need in my opinion is the continuing involvement of new players, who for the sake of maintaining and growing this endeavor, need to be appreciated in their own way as much as the veterans.

<br />This is exactly why I started this thread!!!<br /><br />I think I should have congratulated the powers that be for doing a great job this year in both challenges in the dungeon and making creative items available.  I hope that this thread will give them more ideas to bridge the gap between newbies, midlings and veterans of TD.

I think you missed the point, DA. Mage armor used to stack with armor. It was finally ret'coned not to and the suggestion was to make it stack again.

<br />I think you missed the point, DA. Mage armor used to stack with armor. It was finally ret'coned not to and the suggestion was to make it stack again.<br />

<br /><br />Exactly. If Mage Armor is allowed to stack with Robe and Cloak of the Mage (which was the suggestion), then it is much more plausible that Mage Armor should also stack with armor for the bard.

I am very puzzled by the concern about power creep.  <br /><br />If True Dungeon was an event like Nascrag or Magic where people competed to make the next round then it would make sense.  But I can't see how it matters to anyone how another group did in the dungeon.  <br /><br />