TOPIC: New Token Ideas

#1: Banned items = Bad

#2: Self-Explanatory items = Good

#3: Magic Bonuses should be used with CAUTION

#4: Items don't need in-game effects to be Cool.

Raven, excellent post. I completely agree with your points.

1) Agreed, banning is bad.
2) Self-explanitory items are good. However, I do still think you could have "fancy" names that are simple in effect. One example is the Cloak of Displacement which simply increases your AC by 1. Or the Wand of Arcane Wrath that does 5 points of automatic ranged damage but only has 4 charges, etc.
3) Also agree on the options. Forcing players to choose WHICH items and not simply tasking them to gather the best will add a dynamic element of strategy to the game. I also like the idea of potentially limiting the number of tokens you can bring into the dungeon. Although this limit should be rather high (20?) to allow standard and lesser items to be brough in (e.g. Potion of Cure Minor Wounds). Alternatively, you could set up a system where Backpack is one of the common items and it allows you to increase the number of tokens you can bring with you.
4) Another great point about "cool" items. And like you said, these should be IN GAME tokens, NOT from a purchased token bag.

As for a darkvision replacement, personally, I think there are better options than simply doubling the Chainmail in the token bags. Perhaps Scale Mail.

Also, another good point and word of caution about single ultra-rare dungeon tokens. Although I think it might be fine in some groups (just do random draws), for other groups, it would be like throwing one bone into a pack of hungry wolves.

Oh and here are some other ideas for tokens:
-Scroll or Potion of Giant Strength (+2 to-hit/dam for 1 person, 1 room)
-Gear: Hammer and Iron Spikes (always a favorite of mine in D&D)
-Silver Weapons (hinting the possibility of werewolf-type creatures)
-Clothes of Nobility (perhaps gets them a different reaction from one NPC or just for role-playing)
-Potion of Minor Haste (one person gets two attacks in the first round of combat)
-Potion of Clarity (Cleric or Wizard gets two guess on beads/board)
-Vial of Poison (next hit does 2x damage to humanoids; 1 round to apply only usable by rogues?)
-Token of Luck (re-slide one attack)
-Scroll of Chain Lightning (4pts, 3pts, 2pts, and 1pt of damage to up to 4 targets)
-Backpack (introducing inventory mechanic)
-or just a plain Helmet (+1 AC)

My 5 cents,
-Douglas

Lots of very cool ideas Douglas (and everyone!).

Ya know, if TD keeps growing and expanding (do I see a European GenCon expansion?!)... perhaps one day the wooden tokens could turn into the "playing card" format. Basically they could use the standard of he Magic card format: cool picture of the item + more room for a text description.

The cards could certainly be packaged to compliment Gary's idea of a base kit/pack and expansion kits/packs.

But cards cost more to print, and art needs to be acquired, packaging... if only TD knew someone who had experience creating a playing card format...

Perhaps in some ways it is blasphemy to suggest non-wooden tokens. There is a great satisfaction in the *clack* of tokens in a bag (little treasures!). Just a thought...

Blasphemy INDEED...*gets out holy symbol and gear and perpares to exorcise INDY*

Tokens RULE - Playing cards are so last week.

dequils wrote:

3) Also agree on the options. Forcing players to choose WHICH items and not simply tasking them to gather the best will add a dynamic element of strategy to the game. I also like the idea of potentially limiting the number of tokens you can bring into the dungeon.

Might be too cumbersome to enforce (and probably impossible), at least if you want to muster fast. I would rather see more items assigned to slots, and we pick and choose what we want in those slots.

Slots that are used:

Shoulders/back (cloak)
Finger (I think we can limit this to two rings, like d20 rules)
Neck (the amulet)
Body (armor)
Arms/Wrist (bracers)
Hands (glove or gauntlets)
Feet (boots)

Slots that are not used:

Head (no wizard hats yet!)
Eyes (goggles, etc)
Torso (shirt or vest)
Waist (belts)

I am a bit worried if other slots open up though. You can already have something like a dozen tokens in your badge:


Cloak
2 rings (not counting the Ring of 3 wishes)
Amulet
Armor
Shield
Bracers
Gauntlets
Boots
Bard toy
2 permanent buffs

And this isn't counting your weapon, which I assume will be held in your hand.

...

I am a bit worried if other slots open up though. You can already have something like a dozen tokens in your badge:

And this isn't counting your weapon, which I assume will be held in your hand.

:shock: It can be a lot when you look at it that way... perhaps we should just do away with tokens all together...

... :twisted: *runs, hides and waits for Gary's heart to beat again*

Grrrrr Where is the +1 mace when I need one.

Oh is that what it was? I thought it was a back scratcher, I put it out in the yard sale for fifty cents. Was that wrong?

Raven, excellent post. I completely agree with your points.

Thanks!

2) Self-explanitory items are good. However, I do still think you could have "fancy" names that are simple in effect. One example is the Cloak of Displacement which simply increases your AC by 1. Or the Wand of Arcane Wrath that does 5 points of automatic ranged damage but only has 4 charges, etc.

Okay, I'll grant ya that. The cloak of Displacement, if it had "+1 to AC" as text on the token would be perfectly self-explanatory. Wand of Arcane Wrath (5 pts automatic ranged damage) with 5 "charge" boxes would also be very self explanatory. I was kinda thinking of stuff like the "Cloak of Elvenkind" which we had a little trouble with last year, or "Smokestick" - cool items, but DMs didn't know how to run them, or some interpreted them differently than others.

I also like the idea of potentially limiting the number of tokens you can bring into the dungeon. Although this limit should be rather high (20?) to allow standard and lesser items to be brough in (e.g. Potion of Cure Minor Wounds). Alternatively, you could set up a system where Backpack is one of the common items and it allows you to increase the number of tokens you can bring with you.

Okay, I'd been thinking from a fighter's perspective, not a wizard's. All those cool scrolls would take up a lot of room, and you're right, 10 is a low number in that case.
But it sure would make the DM's life easier, if he only had to keep track of -X- tokens.

I think WayToomuchCoffee had a good idea, though - slots! What if we had a special POG-like sheet that assigned slots to various tokens? The first row is for Armor (body), amulet (neck), weapon (R hand), shield (L hand), then a row for gauntlets/bracers/magic rings R & L, then cloak, belt, boots, whatever, and a row for "buffs" (Mage armor in effect, Darkvision, etc).

If it was standardized, DMs would quickly know where to look for various stat enhancers, and players would also be limited (to an extent) in what they could be equipped with. Scrolls, potions, etc could still be carried in a pouch, and only brought out as needed. Might make things a bit easier for the poor DMs, and faster for the players, too!

Was thinking on how to handle the token modifiers.

Thought that maybe we could have an “official� at the start of the dungeon (pre-clock ticking) to mark on the player cards any stat modifiers the players had, say in red ink. That way the numbers would be on the card and the DMs would not have to worry about looking (not that the players wouldn’t remind us). Any items found in the dungeon and used by the player could also be added on the sheet, but in a different color, say blue.

As far as the once per adventure tokens go, I still think we can in most situations trust the players. I am often surprised by the honesty and desire to “play by the rules� that the players have. I think in most cases we can even trust the Rogues to differentiate between in-character play and real life honesty. IF the player is cheating, they are denying themselves the opportunity to match their skill and wits against the game. If they don’t care, so be it.

Alternatively, plastic tokens or paper tickets could be obtained from the previously mentioned “official� by showing the one time use item, when the item is used, the ticket not the token would be surrendered to the DM. This could also be implemented for projectiles if we decided not to have each range weapon have an endless supply. As with anything we implement though, if there is a deep desire to subvert the system, someone will figure out a way to do it, so I am kind of back to the trust concept.

Thoughts ???

Dave

Was thinking on how to handle the token modifiers.

Thought that maybe we could have an “official� at the start of the dungeon (pre-clock ticking) to mark on the player cards any stat modifiers the players had, say in red ink. That way the numbers would be on the card and the DMs would not have to worry about looking (not that the players wouldn’t remind us). Any items found in the dungeon and used by the player could also be added on the sheet, but in a different color, say blue.

As far as the once per adventure tokens go, I still think we can in most situations trust the players. I am often surprised by the honesty and desire to “play by the rules� that the players have. I think in most cases we can even trust the Rogues to differentiate between in-character play and real life honesty. IF the player is cheating, they are denying themselves the opportunity to match their skill and wits against the game. If they don’t care, so be it.

Alternatively, plastic tokens or paper tickets could be obtained from the previously mentioned “official� by showing the one time use item, when the item is used, the ticket not the token would be surrendered to the DM. This could also be implemented for projectiles if we decided not to have each range weapon have an endless supply. As with anything we implement though, if there is a deep desire to subvert the system, someone will figure out a way to do it, so I am kind of back to the trust concept.

Thoughts ???

Dave

I like the idea of having the card marked up pre-adventure. It would seem to be easier on the DM and quicker for in-game situations.

Oh, I like the idea of obtaining a "plastic chip" or "paper slip" before you adventure. Put it in the hands of the player... and less chance of a DM running out of them in the reverse idea. The only quark I can think of is what if the players find a "once an adventure" item while in the adventure... hmm. LOL, so once again back to the ol' honesty system. Maybe the issue should only be looked at IF there is a noticable issue.

Nice idea, the slips could have time and date on them to prevent them from being kept from one adventure to the next.

George

I for one would like to add my vote to changing a bunch of the tokens around every year. I would not like to see any tokens banned. My main concern is that some tokens may need to be taken out of the mix. We'll see this year, but some tokens in multiples may be found to be too powerful. In the new mix with 1 VR per bag, some people may have multiple wands of cure light wounds / elixirs making a party unstoppable. If new tokens are added, it would be important to be sure that they are not stackable with other existing tokens to avoid making a player too powerful.
Lastly, this is probably only me talking, but I thought it was more fun when the VR were only available in one out of 4-5 bags, making them special to acquire.