TOPIC: New 2007 Token Guide Feedback

Makes sense to K.I.S.S., and I agree that it makes the player make a strategic choice.<br /><br />Brian<br />

Pretty clear to me...<br /><br />Don't use the PURP...(such a shame...but it if only the CoM was +4 +2...)<br /><br />Use a Burner RED and the Red +2 Save robe instead.<br /><br />Only problem...yep...Dispel Magic would slam the +4AC bonus...but then again it might mess with the CoM too...we don't know what is up their cloak sleve for the adventure this year...but obviously there are gong to be some very strategic choices to make this year.

To open another can of worms - if they can't change the cloak / mage armor because it would mess up the AC calc on the Party Card - does that mean that if someone picks another AC boosting item (like Amulet of Armor or Ring of Protection +1 or Bracers of Protection) they have to stick with that item the whole adventure to avoid messing up the AC on the Party Card?  <br /><br />If so - what of someone using a Shield - it would mess up their AC on the card if they switched from a one-handed weapon and the shield to a 2 handed melee or missile weapon.  Is that doable?  <br /><br />Thanks,<br />Mike<br /><br />

<br />No, guys.  We really want it to be a strategic choice.  <br /><br />If Mage Armor is cast the Cloak will not work at all.  <br /><br />No AC no save bonus.<br /><br />If the Wizard has both, he/she must choose which they will use.  I would love to have options open for the Wizard to be able to change their mind, but the whole AC calc thing on the Party Card would be effected, so they just need to make a call and live with it for the adventure.<br />

<br />To open another can of worms - if they can't change the cloak / mage armor because it would mess up the AC calc on the Party Card - does that mean that if someone picks another AC boosting item (like Amulet of Armor or Ring of Protection +1 or Bracers of Protection) they have to stick with that item the whole adventure to avoid messing up the AC on the Party Card?  <br />If so - what of someone using a Shield - it would mess up their AC on the card if they switched from a one-handed weapon and the shield to a 2 handed melee or missile weapon.  Is that doable?  <br />Thanks,<br />Mike<br />

<br /><br />Good questions Mike.  Or if the Mage Armor were dispelled?  Couldn't a person then put on a CotM?

Yes, that is one unfortunate issue with the party card.  There are cases where an in room setup could invalidate what is on the card, we just have to be a bit dynamic about it.  <br /><br />A single change from one to the other should not be a problem for a DM to make the change on the card, but changing every 5 minutes would create a big mess.  I could see someone saying they wanted to dispell the mage armor to wear the cloak or vise versa.  Given the mage armor is not a common consumable, it probably will not happen often unless it is a group like Team Token.<br /><br />Frankly most players will not have the token stores to even contemplate more than one adventure setup.  So in the long run it wont be much of an issue, unless one of you guys is involved. <br /><br />I am counting on the token collectors and token affluent to know how tokens are used well enough to help manage the various changes that might happen during the game.  With one or two exceptions  =D  most of you are honest enough to admit when something like that occurrs.  If not, well I guess you found a way to exploit the system.... <br /><br />

Hopefully the coach would advise against that.  I would think that situation would be fairly rare, so the GM could just handle the individual cases as necessary.  If someone drew a shield or armor and wanted to change in the dungeon, the GM could just change the party card as needed.<br /><br />

<br />Yes, that is one unfortunate issue with the party card.  There are cases where an in room setup could invalidate what is on the card, we just have to be a bit dynamic about it.  <br /><br />A single change from one to the other should not be a problem for a DM to make the change on the card, but changing every 5 minutes would create a big mess.  I could see someone saying they wanted to dispell the mage armor to wear the cloak or vise versa.  Given the mage armor is not a common consumable, it probably will not happen often unless it is a group like Team Token.<br /><br />Frankly most players will not have the token stores to even contemplate more than one adventure setup.  So in the long run it wont be much of an issue, unless one of you guys is involved. <br /><br />I am counting on the token collectors and token affluent to know how tokens are used well enough to help manage the various changes that might happen during the game.  With one or two exceptions  =D  most of you are honest enough to admit when something like that occurrs.  If not, well I guess you found a way to exploit the system.... <br /><br /><br />

<br /><br />With the tokens currently out, I think the main issue would be people swapping rings situationally, and if one of the rings being swapped out were the +1 Ring of Protection, I could see the need several times during an adventure to change the AC on the Party Card.  I'm not sure how easy it is to make a change on the Party Card.  I'm sure you're right, that the vast majority of players won't own more than two rings so this is probably only an issue for the serious token buyer, who makes up a small minority of the players.  I'll be outfitting my entire party, and while I'll probably have several rings with me, I'm sure I'll be outfitting all my friends with one token setting (the best token I have per class for each slot possible), so they won't need to do any swapping out at all.  <br /><br />I guess it could be fairly common for someone with a weapon & Shield to switch to a ranged weapon and back (at least it seems to be the goal of True Dungeon to make missile weapons more viable and easy to use), and that would require the card to be changed a few times also. 

<br />No, guys.  We really want it to be a strategic choice.  <br /><br />If Mage Armor is cast the Cloak will not work at all.  <br /><br />No AC no save bonus.<br /><br />If the Wizard has both, he/she must choose which they will use.  I would love to have options open for the Wizard to be able to change their mind, but the whole AC calc thing on the Party Card would be effected, so they just need to make a call and live with it for the adventure.<br />

<br /><br />That's okay by me.  I just wanted to be sure that was the intention.  Thanks.

<br />I guess it could be fairly common for someone with a weapon & Shield to switch to a ranged weapon and back (at least it seems to be the goal of True Dungeon to make missile weapons more viable and easy to use), and that would require the card to be changed a few times also.  <br />

<br /><br />Mike,<br />Yes, I agree that is probably the most common situation.  The average player would probably not fight ranged the entire combat.  I am guessing since we have no penalty for swapping weapons, the typical scenario will be for most to use a ranged weapon in the pre-melee round, then switch to a melee weapon for most combat scenarios.  In that case it really means the person is at a lower AC for a brief amount of time, and probably wont matter much in the long run.  In any case the error is in favor of the player, and if there is an error, I would rather it be that direction.<br /><br />I'll have to think on it.  I guess we could place a "shield" checkbox on the party card so the DM could double check the weapon usage, but frankly I am not certain if I were the DM that I would remember to check, much less always make the connection that the staff was two handed, etc..  It is unfortunate, but just because I author the guide, does not mean I can keep everything in my head.  <br /><br />Knowing that the rooms are 12 minutes, and that the combats are often less, I am inclined to let the situation slip if it happens and just not dwell on it too much, unless the room's dynamics really make the difference.  Example: if the room was like the cavern room, 2005 I think, and the party engaged in combat with all distance weapons then the DM should remember to check to see if ACs are based on shield supplements because it may make a slight difference and it would occur for the entire combat.  If it were the earlier scenario of pre-melee combat only, then NBD.<br /><br />Fair enough?<br />

<br />Hopefully the coach would advise against that.  I would think that situation would be fairly rare, so the GM could just handle the individual cases as necessary.  If someone drew a sheild or armor and wanted to change in the dungeon, the GM could just change the party card as needed.<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br />That would be my call.

Best policy on a lot of this crap IMO is don't ask, don't tell. It's not going to impact a lot of people in the grand scheme of things and what you really want to avoid is overkill when fixing loopholes. Ring display is probably enough to handle most of the problems and we should just leave it at that.

Agreed, as I said before:<br /><br />

<br />Frankly most players will not have the token stores to even contemplate more than one adventure setup.  So in the long run it wont be much of an issue, unless one of you guys is involved. <br />

<br /><br />This can also be extended to the fact most players will not know enough about all of the various tokens and combinations for that to be an issue either, that is unless one of you guys blabs while coaching....