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TOPIC: Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions?

Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #133

Rob F wrote:

Fred K wrote: The thread started about just asking people to show some respect for the community by taking turns. It’s first grade civility folks. Let’s focus on that. It isn’t unreasonable to give other people a chance to do these as well. It had always been considered polite and appropriate to do so until Utaku was asked not to try and steamroll people and just doubled down on it.

This started out very civil and polite just asking for everyone to go back to lessons from the lunch line in first grade because seeing the auctions run by different people benefits both a larger variety of people running them as well as the community as a whole.

Separately, helping to ensure shady things aren’t happening is important and ending questionable practices like secret roll-over bidding and running anonymous auctions matters as well. The reality is the people who defended it appeared to all have financial stakes in having it continue (with 1 possible exception but you can’t tell due to anonymous sponsors.) The claim that nobody is profiting further adds to the shadiness since we know it isn’t true based on their own comments. The solution there is just to avoid those auctions and let others know to avoid them since it sounds like the bids may be manipulated by the auction system/organizing.

So - can people learn to cooperate on organizing these? (yes down to 1 request from 3 on my earlier post.)

Fred


I understand you aren't a fan of the rollover auctions but maybe ease back a bit on claims that all people who support his auctions have financial stakes in them and that something shady is going on. I have never been a sponsor for one of his auctions and I do not have a financial stake in them. I participate in many different auctions, including Matt's. I win sometimes and I'm out bid sometimes. I don't lose a wink of sleep over it. As for these auctions being shady I can see how one could be skeptical. A new player enters the community and starts doing something that costs him time, effort and $$ without asking for compensation in return. Seems to good to be true but maybe he's just a good guy. I don't know, time will tell.


Rob, I agree with your comment, I hope people can refrain from accusations of shady things going on when as far as I know there aren't any signs that is happening.

I think Matt is basically donating his time and effort when doing sponsored auctions, but I don't think he's out any money. The Sponsor is paying the difference between the $8K and the amount raised in the auction.
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Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #134

Kusig wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: If it is that important to get others running auctions instead of the same person, the simplest solution off the top of my head is to make patron benefits non-transferable.
I would suggest still allowing adventurer guild to be transferable to allow for a group of friends to pool together for the 8k bonuses...but whoever gets the patron code will have to be the one placing the order.


Possible results from that suggestion. Now all other items in the 8k have a price increase since the Patron Pin is now effectively worth $0 to a group buy causing more auctions to fail to fund.

Also nothing is to prevent me from sponsoring an auction run by someone else and just dumping the 8k charge through my account and have it shipped to whomever I have running the auction. The only thing that does is allow me to get a Patron Pin for next to nothing since everyone will think its worthless anyway for the person running the auction.

Just seems like that would result in increased prices to everyone when I bet most of us want to see URs and the like more accessible and affordable.


I know we are going off on a tangent here, but if I was to make one change it would be for TD to include 2 PYP URs in the $250 order (maybe bump it up to $300). The change would encourage more folks to buy direct from TD if all they want is the PYPs. Auctions, particularly ones with rollover bids, are not good for newer folks who might not understand all of the mechanics at play.
Last edit: by OrionW.
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Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #135

Rob F wrote: I understand you aren't a fan of the rollover auctions but maybe ease back a bit on claims that all people who support his auctions have financial stakes in them and that something shady is going on. I have never been a sponsor for one of his auctions and I do not have a financial stake in them. I participate in many different auctions, including Matt's. I win sometimes and I'm out bid sometimes. I don't lose a wink of sleep over it. As for these auctions being shady I can see how one could be skeptical. A new player enters the community and starts doing something that costs him time, effort and $$ without asking for compensation in return. Seems to good to be true but maybe he's just a good guy. I don't know, time will tell.


I wouldn't say there is no compensation. Advertisement for his token store is probably a big motivation. Not to mention if he has the PayPal Cashback Mastercard he gets 3% cash back on any purchases directly through PayPal which should cover shipping + some. Now am I saying its worth the time for that small amount? Not for me but for him maybe.
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Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #136

(this response was from an earlier item and not towards the most recent posts, sorry for the confusion!)

I am fighting my better judgement by responding, but I am very disappointed in the personal and targeted attacks that you are throwing my way and at the large number of members that take part in and some sponsor my auctions. I refuse to let you lob unfounded and baseless accusations at me personally and at those that chose to support my efforts to make the game more accessible for a larger number of players (a good portion of which aren't even in the forums).

In terms of the general items you list, I'll try and answer them individually:
  1. In terms of the carryover bidding, this was something I was offering as a way to help all bidders, but as mentioned before, 100% agree it should have been listed if it was in play or just not practiced at all. Moving forward, there will be no "carrying over" over of bids of any kind in any auction run under the UTC banner.
  2. In terms of anonymous sponsors, each of the 6 sponsors I've run auctions for this year have all been public and have had a great time working with them. In terms of future, sponsors are choosing to stay anonymous for fear of direct attacks from a select few individuals on this thread. So as you claim civility, understand you are actively scaring individual members from taking part in our community activities. Part of the reason for my sponsorship is to allow members to take part in running auctions that they may not do on their own, but one of the reasons is it is both very daunting and some are intimidated by others in this community. I'm happy to help them out and if I absorb a few arrows in the process so be it.
  3. In terms of privacy, this is a non-starter for me and any auction run through UTC will never release buyer information or purchasing information for anyone that bids or buys from me and I personally would never take part in a store or auction that would ever consider doing that, within the True Dungeon arena or otherwise.

At the end of the day for every one complaint on this thread, I'm getting 10 more PMs that support the value they get from my efforts in this group. They are also checking on me to see if I'm OK which I hope underscores that if you are trying to promote civility while others are publicly and privately stating that your actions are bullying or worse, there may be a reason for that.

I very much appreciate the continued support from a plethora of our members and understand that some may chose not to participate in my auctions or store for any number of reasons and am 100% supportive of that. I just have 1 ask, please stop attacking me personally as you do not know how it impacts me mentally. I understand it is easy to yell into the forum, but please know your words do have impacts on others, both for me as well as people outside of me.
- Send me in DM! I'M READY TO ROLL!

Swing by utakustradecaravan.com to buy, trade, or bid on tokens for your True Dungeon characters!
From my humble caravan I offer:
- Trade Goods and Treasurers I've gathered along the way (Completion, Ultra Rare+, etc.)
- My Trading Post with my current needs/wants!
- My Auction House hosting 8K Auctions, charity auctions, and more!
Last edit: by Utaku Soto.
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Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #137

OrionW wrote: I know we are going off on a tangent here, but if I was to make one change it would be for TD to include 2 PYP URs in the $250 order (maybe bump it up to $300). The change would encourage more folks to buy direct from TD if all they want is the PYPs. Auctions, particularly ones with rollover bids, are not good for newer folks who might not understand all of the mechanics at play.


That would result in increased prices elsewhere mainly the 8k exclusive items. I would imagine our goal as a whole are to get costs down and increase accessibility right? If you decrease the value of one item it increases the value of the others in order to make an 8k order not a complete loss. Group buys allow for more of the high end items to be in circulation otherwise why would we be doing them.

As a note, I've only been here 8 days and I figured out the auction system pretty quickly. Its not rocket science understanding what goes on and how to value items. Heck there is even a spreadsheet on here showing the average and min/max sell price for everything that comes with it.
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Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #138

Kusig wrote:

OrionW wrote: I know we are going off on a tangent here, but if I was to make one change it would be for TD to include 2 PYP URs in the $250 order (maybe bump it up to $300). The change would encourage more folks to buy direct from TD if all they want is the PYPs. Auctions, particularly ones with rollover bids, are not good for newer folks who might not understand all of the mechanics at play.


That would result in increased prices elsewhere mainly the 8k exclusive items. I would imagine our goal as a whole are to get costs down and increase accessibility right? If you decrease the value of one item it increases the value of the others in order to make an 8k order not a complete loss. Group buys allow for more of the high end items to be in circulation otherwise why would we be doing them.

As a note, I've only been here 8 days and I figured out the auction system pretty quickly. Its not rocket science understanding what goes on and how to value items. Heck there is even a spreadsheet on here showing the average and min/max sell price for everything that comes with it.


I am ok with paying increased prices for premium items that come in the 5k orders because in general you only need 1 of each.

On the other hand every year there are a lot of good PYPs. If folks where buying orders directly from TD it would come with a bunch of benefits:
1) chance at a random UR
2) chance at a golden ticket
3) acquiring a lot of tokens that could be turned into trade goods

If TD orders were closer to auction prices for PYPs newer players would be better off.

Edit: but to be clear I don’t expect to see changes so auctions are likely the best vehicle next year for collecting items.
Last edit: by OrionW.
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Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #139

Avoiding the larger post, because I think it wasn’t directed at me, I wanted to address your 3 sub points - they cover a lot of the back and forth in this thread.

Utaku Soto wrote:

  1. In terms of the carryover bidding, this was something I was offering as a way to help all bidders, but as mentioned before, 100% agree it should have been listed if it was in play or just not practiced at all. Moving forward, there will be no "carrying over" over of bids of any kind in any auction run under the UTC banner.
  2. In terms of anonymous sponsors, each of the 6 sponsors I've run auctions for this year have all been public and have had a great time working with them. In terms of future, sponsors are choosing to stay anonymous for fear of direct attacks from a select few individuals on this thread. So as you claim civility, understand you are actively scaring individual members from taking part in our community activities. Part of the reason for my sponsorship is to allow members to take part in running auctions that they may not do on their own, but one of the reasons is it is both very daunting and some are intimidated by others in this community. I'm happy to help them out and if I absorb a few arrows in the process so be it.
  3. In terms of privacy, this is a non-starter for me and any auction run through UTC will never release buyer information or purchasing information for anyone that bids or buys from me and I personally would never take part in a store or auction that would ever consider doing that, within the True Dungeon arena or otherwise.

  1. I appreciate the change to get rid of rollover bids. I am very much not a fan of rollover bids without transparency and I am very glad to see them gone. I think there were a few good suggestions on how a rollover system could work with more transparency and maybe someone will pick those up and run with them at some point (Kirk’s post about a rolling public queue being one example).
  2. I think it is unfortunate that folks with a financial interest aren’t willing to step-up and self identify. I understand the hesitation on their part considering how hot this thread has gotten at times, but by remaining silent they make it impossible to tell support based on your excellent customer service from AstroTurf. I know that isn’t completely fair, because I have no idea if they are posting here - but it is a hard feeling to shake. Hopefully as we go into next year things will cool down and they will change their minds on remaining anonymous.
  3. I would prefer more transparency in the auction marketplace, closer to what we have from the token stores, so we are on completely different sides of the spectrum here. Going forward I want to know what I am getting into and feel afterwards like everything was transparent. Not having insight into any bid history gives me pause. It’s your business and you should run it the way you want, but I am hopeful someone else will run auctions which are a little less like a blackbox.

I think I was one of the early folks to focus on rollover bids, and I feel some responsibility for derailing this thread and moving the focus away from competing auctions. Hopefully with rollover bids officially dead the thread, should it continue, can focus more on the original topic.

In regards to the original topic, my advice to anyone that wants to run an auction is go for it - just be sure to put your spin on it. I would love to see more types of auctions and less “standard” lighting auctions. My only ask would be to put an end date on your auction. If your idea doesn’t work, no one wants to feel trapped in an auction that doesn’t look like it is going to fund.

The community is better when more people participate and that includes UTC auctions along with other folk’s auctions as well.
Last edit: by OrionW.
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Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #140

Thanks OrionW and I honestly understand all three of the points. On the carryover bids, I'm glad you brought it up as I don't think I understood the unintended consequences that doing that would have and it made perfect sense once I took time to think about it. I am definitely more than happy to admit when I'm wrong and learn from it. On the other two points I completely understand and although we may be on opposite sides to some degree, that is not a bad thing and 100% respect that. Both of us can be right in terms of what we prefer and where we choose to engage.

That is the good thing about our community from what I have experienced this first year+, people try new things out all the time and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't (see my original preorder from November idea) and people can choose where they want to participate. And I'm trying to still balance out my own approaches to see if there are things I can do to improve. That was where the Sponsorship idea came from and I know there will be more to come.

Thanks again for the response and feedback as I do think that helped uncover a blindspot for me and think it will help me continue to improve.
- Send me in DM! I'M READY TO ROLL!

Swing by utakustradecaravan.com to buy, trade, or bid on tokens for your True Dungeon characters!
From my humble caravan I offer:
- Trade Goods and Treasurers I've gathered along the way (Completion, Ultra Rare+, etc.)
- My Trading Post with my current needs/wants!
- My Auction House hosting 8K Auctions, charity auctions, and more!
Last edit: by Utaku Soto.
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Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #141

Two honest questions for you

OrionW wrote:

  • I think it is unfortunate that folks with a financial interest aren’t willing to step-up and self identify. I understand the hesitation on their part considering how hot this thread has gotten at times, but by remaining silent they make it impossible to tell support based on your excellent customer service from AstroTurf. I know that isn’t completely fair, because I have no idea if they are posting here - but it is a hard feeling to shake. Hopefully as we go into next year things will cool down and they will change their minds on remaining anonymous.

  • Why is it so important that you know who is running or sponsoring the auction?

    OrionW wrote:

  • I would prefer more transparency in the auction marketplace, closer to what we have from the token stores, so we are on completely different sides of the spectrum here. Going forward I want to know what I am getting into and feel afterwards like everything was transparent. Not having insight into any bid history gives me pause. It’s your business and you should run it the way you want, but I am hopeful someone else will run auctions which are a little less like a blackbox.
  • [/ol]


    What are you going to do with the bid information?

    Jeff Martin wrote: All damage is Sacred.

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    Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #142

    Utaku Soto wrote: Thanks OrionW and I honestly understand all three of the points. On the carryover bids, I'm glad you brought it up as I don't think I understood the unintended consequences that doing that would have and it made perfect sense once I took time to think about it. I am definitely more than happy to admit when I'm wrong and learn from it. On the other two points I completely understand and although we may be on opposite sides to some degree, that is not a bad thing and 100% respect that. Both of us can be right in terms of what we prefer and where we choose to engage.

    That is the good thing about our community from what I have experienced this first year+, people try new things out all the time and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't (see my original preorder from November idea) and people can choose where they want to participate. And I'm trying to still balance out my own approaches to see if there are things I can do to improve. That was where the Sponsorship idea came from and I know there will be more to come.

    Thanks again for the response and feedback as I do think that helped uncover a blindspot for me and think it will help me continue to improve.


    So are you willing to step back and not compete against other people who want to run auctions? That's the core thing people are asking you to do. Stop running concurrent auctions that fight with other sellers, which cause their auctions to fail and cause them to leave the auction scene.

    Are you willing to take turns with other people so everyone has a fair chance of their auction funding?
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    Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #143

    I understand the concern on this one and based on the feedback I've received both publicly and privately, I will be continuing to run auctions throughout the year as planned with sponsored auction throughout and into 2023.

    Based on the success of concurrent auctions throughout the year as well as 3 currently running at 83%+, I think the community is showing there is interest in having multiple auctions, especially ones that are varied in format.

    For those who prefer not to bid in my auction, I truly have no ill will and hope they find a option that fits their needs and preferences.
    - Send me in DM! I'M READY TO ROLL!

    Swing by utakustradecaravan.com to buy, trade, or bid on tokens for your True Dungeon characters!
    From my humble caravan I offer:
    - Trade Goods and Treasurers I've gathered along the way (Completion, Ultra Rare+, etc.)
    - My Trading Post with my current needs/wants!
    - My Auction House hosting 8K Auctions, charity auctions, and more!
    Last edit: by Utaku Soto.
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    Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions? 10 months 3 weeks ago #144

    Utaku Soto wrote: I understand the concern on this one and based on the feedback I've received both publicly and privately, I will be continuing to run auctions throughout the year as planned with sponsored auction throughout and into 2023.

    Based on the success of concurrent auctions throughout the year as well as 3 currently running at 83%+, I think the community is showing there is interest in having multiple auctions, especially ones that are varied in format.

    For those who prefer not to bid in my auction, I truly have no ill will and hope they find a option that fits their needs and preferences.


    Don't claim to be doing things for the community when you are unwilling to follow a simple request to simply slow down on how many auctions you run so others can have a chance. If you truly cared for the community of the game you would be willing to work with the community so everyone has the ability to run an auction.
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