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TOPIC: Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes!

Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #49

jedibcg wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: MEC is not a mage power, does not use a free action, did not use a free action prior to most recent change.

It is limited to one spell per round.

Not that I want to get into explaining how tokens work, since that doesn't go well. But, there has been confusion in the past over how certain things like MEC work, and class transmutes are extremely dense to parse and have to have very careful wording to hold together coherently.


MEC the token originally required a FA to use, I am not talking about the MEC power on the relic or legendary. Maybe that free action went away, that is what I don't know and am asking.


I can't say MEC never required a FA, but if it did, then it was changed very quickly. For years I saw others and myself combo MEC with Ring of Spell Storing and the Cabal Set. That wouldn't have been possible if it required a FA.

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Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #50

Ian Lee wrote:

Mugsi wrote: No worries here. I am also generally VERY curious and want to know how these things work (makes me a better player and DM). I was just looking at my spreadsheet I use to calculate damage ( the app gets messed up on certain fights when you switch damage types). I had a MASSIVE typo in my sheet in the formula I used to calculate base damage. I was off by 10 points per spell. For the correct record keeping. If the cheese works, it would be 2x 87 per round, and 87 + 67 per round if it doesn't. None of this takes into effect SR/DR or the bonus due to it being cold.

Probably best to take this discussion to another thread at this point though.


This seems a great place for sorting out numbers.

Btw, the sheet is very spoilery.

As I understand it from looking at other round numbers, +37 spell damage. Fireball MECed is (20 x 2) + 37 + ?? Where is the other 10 coming from? I could speculate, but let's not.

Also, earlier, what's the Magic Missile twice, then twice again on round two? One of them get Forked? Not to seem like picking on this one run, but this thread seems to have value for just clarifying real combat and all of the miscellaneous things that can happen, especially now. I wish it were easier to track as it interests me what people do in detail, maybe do recordings and review later to capture all of the party actions in a run.


You still may not get all the party actions reviewing a recording. If someone used a consumable to boost damage they may not tell the DM. Though I reported some of the time who I was flanking for, I often just sent it to that person in private chat and told the DM I was flanking. Granted it would be better than the spreadsheet for seeing what happens but I caution against thinking it would capture all party actions.
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.

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Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #51

Actually the more I'm digging into my sheet, the more errors I am finding. I'm not trusting any of the damage until I wipe it out and start from scratch. The last I touched the sheet before yesterday was well over a year ago. My latest blunder is I added the bardsong bonus, but forgot to remove the earcuff. That's another 4 too many. The good news is it only affected the last combat, since I used the app proper for all the others.

Yes fork for the double magic missiles.

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Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #52

Mugsi wrote: Actually the more I'm digging into my sheet, the more errors I am finding. I'm not trusting any of the damage until I wipe it out and start from scratch. The last I touched the sheet before yesterday was well over a year ago. My latest blunder is I added the bardsong bonus, but forgot to remove the earcuff. That's another 4 too many. The good news is it only affected the last combat, since I used the app proper for all the others.

Yes fork for the double magic missiles.

Sorry forgot to remove what earcuff?
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.

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Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #53

Inspiration. The fork was another error, Once per room, not once per round.... dear lord I'm bad at this :)

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Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #54

Mugsi wrote: Inspiration. The fork was another error, Once per room, not once per round.... dear lord I'm bad at this :)

Sorry you don't need inspiration any longer to get the bonus from bardsong on spells, or is that what you are saying.
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.

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Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #55

That's what I was saying. My spreadsheet was a pure-manual thing. I added the Bardsong effect, but I forgot to remove the earcuff effect, so it was counting it twice. Again, so many errors in that sheet. I'm still finding them. It's also not smart enough to import a build (yet), so all items have to be entered by hand that affect spell damage.

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Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #56

dave romanin wrote: Please explain max damage value for ray of shock using fork and MEC on a critical hit. Assume spell Dmg bonus of 30


Would think it would be 132/132.

(18*2 + 30)*2 to two targets.

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Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #57

Ian Lee wrote:

dave romanin wrote: Please explain max damage value for ray of shock using fork and MEC on a critical hit. Assume spell Dmg bonus of 30


Would think it would be 132/132.

(18*2 + 30)*2 to two targets.

Looks right to me. 264 Damage in 1 round is really spicy.

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Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #58

jedibcg wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: As an FYI The Elf Wizard in Group 1 was using tokens incorrectly or the data was incorrect. It's not possible to double MEC fireball and double alter the elemental type to cold. Nor is it possible to get Fireball to 97 damage without MEC.

Edit: Same with group 2. Not possible to double hit for 152 as a Wizard in one turn

This is part of the issue with the data you are making assumption that they used Alter multiple times and not Crown of Elemental Mastery. Granted I believe you are correct in your assumption but without asking them we don't know.


Fireball for 97 is Fireball with Mad Evoker Charm. It's not possible to hit 97 on Fireball without MEC. Having a combat round of Fireball with MEC is not possible, you can not MEC two spells in one combat round.

Even with the Crown of Elemental Mastery this combat turn is not possible

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Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #59

Mugsi wrote: I was the wizard on run #1, and it is certainly possible that I made an error (Wizards are not my primary class). I was equipping the MEC and the Mage medallion BOTH specifically to do 2 MEC effects in 1 round. That is what may be my mistake. That may be just not allowed. I was interpreting it as one spell is through the MEC and 1 is through the Medallion. Thoughts? Jedi is also correct I used the crown to change the damage type, not the medallion.


The MEC in the class necklace is the same as the MEC from the charm. You can't double up to do them twice.

Mad Evoker's Charm is specifically limited to one use per round.

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Gathering Class Damage Data! Fabulous(?) Prizes! 7 months 1 week ago #60

jedibcg wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: MEC is not a mage power, does not use a free action, did not use a free action prior to most recent change.

It is limited to one spell per round.

Not that I want to get into explaining how tokens work, since that doesn't go well. But, there has been confusion in the past over how certain things like MEC work, and class transmutes are extremely dense to parse and have to have very careful wording to hold together coherently.


MEC the token originally required a FA to use, I am not talking about the MEC power on the relic or legendary. Maybe that free action went away, that is what I don't know and am asking.


The FA trigger for the 2021 MEC was removed. It's now an instant action to trigger the MEC (assumed since no action type is mentioned and you can apply the MEC effect to a different spell that you apply mage powers to) it is only limited to one spell per round tho. The charm and both necklaces give the exact same named power so they can't stack (unless TD says otherwise)

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