TOPIC: Which Dungeon does MEC changes start with?

I'm surprised you want to use this token...weren't you against spending hp for effects?

Anthony Barnstable wrote: The token isn’t physically available yet due to a once in a lifetime global event. The event is online due to a once in a lifetime global event. And this is the first token TD has said they want to see how it plays before they make a judgement. It seems reasonable to weigh these three facts and say okay, this token is a special exception because of all of that paired with it changing the MEC to be worse.

Unless you have the token in hand or a party member does(or special arrangements have been made with Jeff or Druegar). Those are the rules.
if not everyone will want to use the ISPG...that is not happening either

Anthony Barnstable wrote: The token isn’t physically available yet due to a once in a lifetime global event. The event is online due to a once in a lifetime global event. And this is the first token TD has said they want to see how it plays before they make a judgement. It seems reasonable to weigh these three facts and say okay, this token is a special exception because of all of that paired with it changing the MEC to be worse.

The token may or may not been able to be transmuted for V3b, we don't know. It is possible that the 2021 tokens ship for V3b, but the transmute would not be setup until later. This is how it has happened in the past. Transmutes become available some time after tokens ship. It is debatable that is a reasonable exception. The changes to LoDS and Cloak of Shadowskin were also changes for the worst from a players standpoint but Jeff thought it for the better of the game. The MEC is the same in that regard. Now I am not saying that he is correct with those other tokens or with the MEC. However the MEC is not special in that regard, that it was made 'worse' with its change. So I find two of your facts to be questionable as being solely exceptional. I do agree getting more testing data is better. However I think it is a bad precedent to allow tokens that are not yet available to be used, but that is just my opinion.

Just for a datapoint, I do have a MEC bagged up and ready to ship in worse the Medallion is actually available.

I also fall into the camp that letting people use a token that is not yet available is a bad precedent. I don't think starting the data collection with V3b, V4a or V4b is that big of a difference. I also have the ingredients ready to transmute for my mage medallion. I could ship them today if they were added to the transmute page. Although TD wouldn't be able to ship it back until the tokens arrive. I'm ok waiting. I really don't think any of this is significant enough to warrant an exception, but that's just my opinion. I'm certain others feel differently.

Adam Guay wrote: I'm surprised you want to use this token...weren't you against spending hp for effects?

I want players to be allowed to use the necklaces now so data can be collected sooner so the tokens can be fixed faster.

I don’t want all tokens to be usable without ownership. Just ones that were unintentionally delayed and had a request by the powers that be to be playtested in the field.

Anthony Barnstable wrote: Just ones that were unintentionally delayed and had a request by the powers that be to be playtested in the field.

Yet we don't know that the Medallion was unintentionally delayed. We don't know when it would have been made available. Maybe before 3Vb maybe after.

Anthony Barnstable wrote:

Adam Guay wrote: I'm surprised you want to use this token...weren't you against spending hp for effects?

I want players to be allowed to use the necklaces now so data can be collected sooner so the tokens can be fixed faster.

I don’t want all tokens to be usable without ownership. Just ones that were unintentionally delayed and had a request by the powers that be to be playtested in the field.

they can wait like the rest of them. Just like other tokens before them and after

It is ok that we aren't using the new tokens for V3B. Consistent rules about tokens needing to be available to be shown is reasonable. This isn't TD's fault nor our faults either (though - again - wear your freakinart g mask and don't do group gatherings and maybe we won't have 300,000 new cases per day.) (Sorry - I am beyond angry at how irresponsible people are responsible for so many people dying.)

When we have the tokens, we'll start using them. The only argument I could see being made is to allow multi-step transmutes for Q1 of this year (i.e. send in everything at once to go to relic then legendary in one step.)

I think it is a good idea to have the new rules for the MEC on V3B. I intend to try using it and see what happens. I suspect it will limit how much we can do it before taxing out our clerics. I made it a point to have 76+ hp in my wizard build for V3B. I'm hoping to try it at least twice.

Fred

I only used the MEC once this adventure (V3b) because of the extreme penalty. I expect I'll make the relic for the mage powers, but I doubt I will use the MEC effects very often.

It is lousy that the MEC users are being punished in this dungeon, but it is what it is. Dumb global events!

I swapped out MEC for Questor's this weekend. Questor's saved me twice so far, so I consider it a good move thus far. The downside is I no longer feel like I'm much in jeopardy. I used to run with 70hp. I lowered it to 65 and so far have only had 1 run out of 9 where I've dropped below 40 hp at any point. (1 hardcore, 5 nightmare, 3 epic). I've had nightmare runs where I've finished with 50+ hp and never had to be healed, even once. I have to assume clerics and druids are finding themselves finishing with a lot healing to spare.

At least with old MEC I was constantly dropping below 30-40hp. I guess when I finally get the mage medallion I'll be using hp again, but I do miss old MEC. I'm thinking about lowering my hp some more on Sunday. I could switch dungeonbane kilt to dexterity based and gain AC, reflex save and ranged to hit bonus. With current shipping delays, I'll likely still not have the mage medallion in time for V4a.

I could see lowering my hp too....but there are very few options for tokens in those slots.

Dave wrote: I'm thinking about lowering my hp some more on Sunday. I could switch dungeonbane kilt to dexterity based and gain AC, reflex save and ranged to hit bonus. With current shipping delays, I'll likely still not have the mage medallion in time for V4a.

Oh, good call on swapping the kilt!