TOPIC: QTR 2021 Beta

Lequinian wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

jedibcg vuvuzela hater wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:
The change to LoDS != the destruction to the MEC. The 'errata' changes it from a $400 token to only worth using as a transmute bit.

LoDS is still usable, MEC is not

Part of that 'loss' in value is that it is being reprinted though not just the nerf. I believe LoDS was near $400 before its reprint as well and is not that again.

IIRC it was 250-300

And yes, the reprint is part of that loss.

But if the token errata stayed and the reprint was removed the value of the MEC would not recover to $400 EVER. It's a MASSIVE CHANGE.

I don't expect the new MEC will EVER breach $150 in cost, even 10 years from now, given how terrible the change is

Please stop yelling (all caps). You've made your case (several times). Move on.

Kindly step off. People are upset, we are allowed to be upset.

I was responding to a message saying the changes were equivalent, they are not.

Lequinian wrote: PS also seems high compared to previous years. Average is 13.14. 15 would not be unreasonable.

PS is also unusually abundant this year with the Rare class neck items. To the tune of (projected) 135 per 8k order vs. 90 last year.

Matthew Hayward wrote: 1. GF is still selling for under $70 (recent eBay sales are $69, $61.69, and less than $74.95 (that was the listing price and we know a lower 'best offer' was accepted). This means demand for MBs is not high compared to historic values - there have been years long periods were GF was ~$90.

Historic highs don't prove that is GF's historic value any more than historic lows prove it value either. The price of GF is higher than than those lows.

2. It's possible A LOT of monster bits are sitting on the sidelines about to become useless for anything other than GF. Bead of the Lucky Traveler and Orion's Belt have not proven very popular (BoTLT can be had for under $130 - it requires 18 MBs to craft). Due to the extension of the crafting deadlines. I personally thing this is the case.

Of course it is possible that a bunch of monsters bits will become GF's. It is also possible that there is not the surplus of GF's from monster bits there has been in the past.

3. Only TPTB know how much treasure is going out in the VTD series relative to physical conventions - but I would be entirely unsurprised if much more MBs are getting into circulation due to higher incidents of high treasure adventurers in VTD.

You are correct however we know that there are less tickets in the V1a-V3b than there is in Gen Con alone. The increase in GF in the recipe was said by Jeff to because of the additional Con contributing to an increase in MB in the wild. I don't doubt that the average treasure pull is higher for VTD. If those 7000 tickets = the ~17,000 tickets in (not certain if that number is right) that Jeff would have expected from GenCon, Orgins, GHC, both Pax and MomoCon in terms of treasure you could be correct. However that doesn't take into count that there were half as many MB from 2019 as there was expected to be. If there is anyone sitting on a glut of 2019's that are going to just turn them into GF's that would surprise me, but is possible.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:
Kindly step off. People are upset, we are allowed to be upset.

I was responding to a message saying the changes were equivalent, they are not.

To be fair you were responding to me and I did not same the changes were equivalent, though you may have interpreted that way. I said the exchange was similar.

Druegar wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: Should the Skull of Cavadar text be in Blue in the document? I guess I would assume the "eldritch" color

I try to match the token's title color in the QTR, not the backing color. There may be occasional exceptions (intentional or otherwise), but that's the intended style.

Should it then be black rather than blue?

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=581&id=248301#321202
"Due to the expansion of TD runs in the last few years, Monster Bits (and Golden Fleece) have become much more common. We will adjust this down starting in 2020, but I feel we need to keep the same level of Monster Bits in the treasure throughout the whole 4-year story arc. And in 2020+, we will drop the number of Golden Fleece needed in Transmuted recipes."
Bold is mine. Now VTD may have changed that, but it seems the intent at least was not to have the GF as wide spread for 2020 recipes.

Lequinian wrote:

Druegar wrote: The recipes for FoP: Horror and Reaver have been adjusted.

Figurine of Power: Horror

• 5 different Completion tokens (any rarity) from any of these Virtual True Dungeon Adventures:
• • VTD1 (a and/or b)
  • VTD2 (a and/or b)
  • VTD3 (a and/or b)
  • VTD4 (a and/or b)
  • VTD5 (a and/or b)
• 500 GP

Figurine of Power: Reaver

• 5 different Rare Completion tokens from any of these Virtual True Dungeon Adventures:
• • VTD1 (a and/or b)
  • VTD2 (a and/or b)
  • VTD3 (a and/or b)
  • VTD4 (a and/or b)
  • VTD5 (a and/or b)
• 1,000 GP Gold Bar (not 1k in “loose change”)
  plus ONLY ONE of the following:
• • Hitchhiking Ghost: Bog
  • Hitchhiking Ghost: Flog
  • Hitchhiking Ghost: Gog
  • Hitchhiking Ghost: Mog
  • Hitchhiking Ghost: Shog

(sorry for the double-bullets, hopefully it's not too confusing)

FYI: I'm not going to manually post all the recipe adjustments, but this is a special situation which I thought warranted posting these specific changes ahead of a new QTR beta.

Respectfully, please consider dropping the gold requirement entirely.

Reason: it wasn't in original recipe.
Reason: these transmutes were/are drivers for VTD including the ones with less desirable completion tokens and upping their cost (if only by the gold) makes the cost/benefit that much harder.

+1

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Dave Autzen wrote: Can someone remind me what FoP: Horror does? I couldn’t find a description of its effect.

6 Points Darkrift I believe

Thanks, I knew it was similar to FoP: Reaver.

Adding gold to the Skull of Cavadar recipe along with maintaining the increased GF requirement is a bit much.

Especially in a year with Class Legendaries that will be a major gold sink.

Tankard of Celebration

Last year, this transmute was 50gp and 200gp. Can be done with 1c and 2 different uncommons.

The comp this year, ridiculous as inflation has become in this market, would be 50gp and 250gp, 1c and 2 different uncommons.

Monster Bits

2019 had a severe dearth of MBs by accident. Yet, the recipes had MBs as typical, with Bead not just putting pressure on acquiring 6 different but Orion's putting even more pressure on the same limited set of MBs. Maybe it's just me but 2020 MBs seem normal for, um, at least one obvious reason - the mix % is not cut in half. Thusly, seems like recipes should generally try to make more use of MBs to be more typical of previous years' recipes.

Admittedly, gold is on rise with uncommon and rare inflation, but there seems an overreliance on specifically 1000gp. Three blue recipes specifically take 1000gp. Kind of odd the fourth is different, especially when one might say the bead and the shirt are kind of similar.

Speaking of inflation ...

Amulet of Noble Might

Comping to MoFA (as most similar 2020 relic recipe), could drop 5x Plank and 5x DS. But, Plank is still absurdly abundant, so could maybe see just 5x DS less.

Ashenne's

Psyferre's is not just going to be popular, it's also a tribute token. Unless the goal is less Psyferre's than other URs or, far more likely, less Ashenne's (because, perhaps, reasons?), the obvious replacement is Platinum Nugget ... or, maybe, Pants of Focus.

Comparing to Ralson's, which is oddly similar or maybe not since lots of recipes are similar to each other, extra Bismuth and extra Oil for 10x less DS but 5x more PS. While thematically weird, let's say EB and OE are pumped. would drop MH by like 10.

Druegar's

Comping to Bog's, I would drop an EB. Not entirely sure why increasing EB and OE in recipes is that exciting, though they aren't much used in other transmutes in this year, so there is that, but it's clear recipe inflation without sucking out more Planks, MS.

Shirt of the Elder

Now, on the one hand this is conceptually similar to bead, on the other it's completely different because this is supposed to be a 3*. 3* are getting really expensive, as it's pretty comparable to Ring of Fervor. OTOH, it's basically the Charm of Timely Aid recipe. Suggests that maybe Ring of Fervor was overcosted and try to undo that some.

Mage Medallion

As brought up, this is much higher than PotY and more AP than the legendary.

Sacred Necklace

Comping on NotSD and looking at Druegar's, 5x less AI would be very fitting.

Skull of Cavadar

Would drop the 1000gp for aesthetic reasons, not because it will have any impact on how many get made. It's the last eldritch (in theory), can just let it go and leave some gp to pile into all of these other transmutes such that maybe the blues will get made a bit more.

Viv's

Would basically be Bog's recipe with either one less EB or one less OE. For same reasons, would rather not see the clear inflation and focus more on sucking out low value trade goods. Now, alternatively, leave EB and OE alone to have some use for those and decrease AI or AP or both.

Marc D wrote: General note: I like the emphasis on Philosopher's Stone this year, given the Rare neck items.

Points specific to the 4* (light blue) transmutes:
I like that the trade good requirements all seem very well tuned to what you could reasonably expect from the entry level PYP option (30 10-packs), with perhaps some support from 10 packs you get from runs and/or treasure pulls.

One thing I found curious is that none of the recipes for 4* transmutes involved 2020 monster trophies this year. So far, only 2 other 4* transmutes haven't allowed trophies to date, either as a substitute for or combination with GP: +3 Ammo of Alteration and Potion of Condensed Healing. The Potion seems a special case recipe. The Ammo seems like a very early transmute in the "new" system.

I can understand that "this is the way it's always done" isn't always a good rationale to do or not do something. That said, it seems like only 2 recipes this year (and one from last year) involve the 2020 trophies at all. It would be nice for those recipes to allow the option for the trophies to substitute for some or all of the GP requirement. This would give make the 2020 monster trophies a bit more desirable. Unless the intention is to have the Elfstone Shard be the primary driver trophies this year.

Edited to add: Monster trophy requirements are also often easier to fill than the GP reserve bar requirements at the level of play where the 4* tokens shine. They are rewards you get from playing the game (running dungeons), which puts them in the hands of a larger base.

+1

The entry for Viv's does not mention the 1-handed Melee weapon enhanced crit range of 19-20.