TOPIC: Bog’s Medallion of Berserking

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Druegar wrote: <dons asbestos suit>

This interaction was discussed at length in design.

The Bracers were toned down from their first several versions because they could stack.

Bracers of Fire/Frost/Lightning is a rare, with no weapon restriction, which grant a stacking +2 damage in the wrist slot.

So we are saying here:

+2 at rare is ok
+5 at ur with weapon limitations, loss of melee offhand, and an ac drawback is not ok.

This doesn’t make any sense to me.

Agreed to this point. This was discussed, and we already have the option of Charm Bracelets to use:
Charm of Glory -> Ring of Brilliance / Ring of the Eel
Draco Litch Charm
== +5 Damage, which Stacks with Bog's Medallion.

Matthew Hayward wrote: This token also provided a critical role in helping fighter and Barbarian not fall too far behind Monk and Ranger. This change lowers damage output of Barbarians and Fighters but does not lower damage output of Monks and Rangers who already deal more.

This is really a separate topic for another thread. Should Barbarians be that high on the damage list? Maybe its time to just cave and admit that the damage rankings are supposed to be
1. Monk
2. Melee Ranger
3. Barbarian w/ 2H.

Barbarians should deal the most damage. Period. Monks and Rangers should not be "out damaging" a Barbarian. Yet they are, and with this ruling the gap widens.

Fingers crossed this ruling gets reversed.

Matthew Hayward wrote: What will happen with the Fighter legendary, will it also not stack with this token?

Exactly. If this is "overpowered" for Barbarians, it's the same for Fighters.

I really hate that this is changing so late in the process. During development this combination was brought up multiple times and was not blocked then. So why is it changing so suddenly now? It's not printed on either token. If someone goes to the TD store and looks at the pictures without checking TDB they'd assume the combination is allowed. Has there even been a situation in the past where this has happened? One token blocks another without it being printed on either token? It's setting a bad precedent. And for what? So Barbarians can't have 2 or 3 more damage vs other bracer options?

And since we're going down this road... how about the relic, Medallion of Furious Attack? Is that combo also blocked? If that's allowed I might as well not make the legendary at all.

Please reverse this decision.

This is deeply saddening to hear. Much deliberation went into lowering / scaling the bracers and medallion since they could be used in conjunction.

Are we also going to start eliminating components of the recipe of other legendaries now?

Does Medallion of Furious attack stack..?

they stack

Also consider: Monk and Ranger swing twice, so their three possible outcomes are full-, half-, and no-damage.

Barbarian (and everyone else) only has two outcomes: all or nothing.

And I agree, a dual-weilder getting +9 damage per hand is more powerful than a Barb getting +15.

I get it. Killing bosses in one round on NM was exciting for awhile, but it gets old. Standing around for 9 minutes a room is boring.

It’s obvious (to me) that all these class -specific legendaries (CSL) leapfrogging the power curve means we’re on the verge of jumping the shark, if we aren’t already aloft. But three are already out there, and another three are in the can, so you can’t nerf the rest. Maybe just ramp up Epic, and add Epic-plus levels. And any group with at least one CSL in the group MUST play at least Epic(#CSLs).

Make Epic(0) much tougher than NM, and Epic(n) means every monster gets +n AC and To Hit and +20 * n to their HP, and every time a player takes damage they take +n more. Or something.

But beginning to errata recent URs for “game balance” doesn’t seem like a good sign.

Druegar wrote: they stack

So this supersedes post #3 where you specifically said that Bog's and BoRF don't stack, correct?

Druegar wrote: they stack

And there was much rejoicing!

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Druegar wrote: they stack

And there was much rejoicing!

Sorry to get all Eeyore, but I think it’s kind of early for that. I think this situation is just a harbinger.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Druegar wrote: they stack

And there was much rejoicing!

Sorry to get all Eeyore, but I think it’s kind of early for that. I think this situation is just a harbinger.

It certainly could be, but I'm pleased at TDs continual willingness to take feedback and adjust course.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Druegar wrote: they stack

And there was much rejoicing!

Sorry to get all Eeyore, but I think it’s kind of early for that. I think this situation is just a harbinger.

I think we need to understand that we can choose not to make (or, less likely) not to use our CSLs.
We may very well need to limit ourselves in order to create a challenge, if that is what we as players want.

TD (IMO) should be working toward making the game great and sustainable. If we have to help with that process, so be it. Going to more cons and expanding the player base is the best thing I can see for them.

I do think the class specific legendaries were a big step up in power. The next is adding more difficulty levels, or doing a system I believe Andrew Knoll once proposed, pick a number, write it on the party card. Monster has Number x40 HP, number x5 AC, number x2 attacks per round, etc. Saves are number x3. Obviously this would need balancing, but you get the idea.

Druegar wrote: they stack

Arnold wrote: So this supersedes post #3 where you specifically said that Bog's and BoRF don't stack, correct?

I think the two different links in my quoted post answer that question.