TOPIC: Orion's Belt

Rob F wrote: I have no problem with the transmute cost on this one. It's perfect. It should include the Fragments and Bits, as it's a special Token and it's a Relic so the other trade goods are fine. I really hope Jeff doesn't pay attention to posts lobbying for a change in the recipe on this one. This one should be all his. If someone thinks the costs outweigh the power level then I say just don't make it.

But this one's a gamble. All it will take is a Legendary Stone or Arcanum Charm or something and then all of a sudden the people that thought the power level wasn't right will be scrambling to acquire more of them or lobbying for a reprint or more expander options.

I think its only a matter of time for this one to be legendary level powerful. The first 2 drafts of the Arcanum items were Charm and Ioun Stone, so I expect the both slots to eventually get arcanum items (hopefully instead of slotless).

Also, with Orion's Belt and 2 Arcane slot expanders, I hope we never again see people complaining that a draft UR needs to change to a non charm / non Ioun Stone slot because the slots are tight.

Druegar wrote:

Bear Paw cookies? Desert after the Burrito...
Bear Cookies & Burritos SWEET combo!

Arnold wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: Spot on analysis!
For all the talk of Power Creep the Ranger Legendary & the Slot expansion seemed to fly under the radar pretty unscathed. This years development and some big choices were a bit perplexing.

Do you think the Ranger Legendary is OP? I thought it was on the weaker end in this class.

I don’t want to derail the thread so I’ll make it quick to answer your question, Absolutely. Rangers (My second default class BTW as all my equipment carries over seamlessly) gets a little too much love above all other classes. +9 Damage every round with range, +5 Con (That stat alone is Legendary), Animal & Reading scrolls is way OP. When they get a second Elm cloak +9 to Con. It’s not even partially situational or balanced like the rest in my view.

I think the belt is awesome, but it’s a little bit of a shrug as it’s another slot expander in a year where 25% of the URs already are. I also think some people seeing the cost to Transmute and comparing the slot choices are what the partial lukewarm reaction/underpowered is about. Just a calculated guess.

Rob F wrote: I have no problem with the transmute cost on this one. It's perfect. It should include the Fragments and Bits, as it's a special Token and it's a Relic so the other trade goods are fine. I really hope Jeff doesn't pay attention to posts lobbying for a change in the recipe on this one. This one should be all his. If someone thinks the costs outweigh the power level then I say just don't make it.

But this one's a gamble. All it will take is a Legendary Stone or Arcanum Charm or something and then all of a sudden the people that thought the power level wasn't right will be scrambling to acquire more of them or lobbying for a reprint or more expander options.

I'm not sure if many people are lobbying for the recipe to change, I think most are saying if they will transmute based on the current recipe. For me, I'm mainly saying I likely wont have any 2019 monster tokens to use on this after bead transmutation, and most of my oil, bismuth, and aragonite will be used for kilt and teeth.

too bad it wasn't a bandoleer

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Bear Paw cookies? Desert after the Burrito...
Bear Cookies & Burritos SWEET combo!

Arnold wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: Spot on analysis!
For all the talk of Power Creep the Ranger Legendary & the Slot expansion seemed to fly under the radar pretty unscathed. This years development and some big choices were a bit perplexing.

Do you think the Ranger Legendary is OP? I thought it was on the weaker end in this class.

I don’t want to derail the thread so I’ll make it quick to answer your question, Absolutely. Rangers (My second default class BTW as all my equipment carries over seamlessly) gets a little too much love above all other classes. +9 Damage every round with range, +5 Con (That stat alone is Legendary), Animal & Reading scrolls is way OP. When they get a second Elm cloak +9 to Con. It’s not even partially situational or balanced like the rest in my view.

I think the belt is awesome, but it’s a little bit of a shrug as it’s another slot expander in a year where 25% of the URs already are. I also think some people seeing the cost to Transmute and comparing the slot choices are what the partial lukewarm reaction/underpowered is about. Just a calculated guess.

Even with all the love the ranger item got a ranger with the legendary and Io's won't do as much ranged damage as a rogue at range with an Assassin's crossbow and the rogue legendary. With all of the slot expanding items one can conclude that this delta will only increase based on the x3 crit damage on the crossbow, as more damage boosting charms and ion stones are created. The stats on the ranger item are fine considering that they are not the best class at ranged damage. The scrolls and the summon animal ability gives them something special and unique and in my mind is what makes the item feel legendary.

As for the belt, I personally love it. By being an item that expands slots it will remain relevant in a way that a simple +stats item would not as the game continues to grow. It might not be BIS, but it will always be useful.

Rob F wrote: I have no problem with the transmute cost on this one. It's perfect. It should include the Fragments and Bits, as it's a special Token and it's a Relic so the other trade goods are fine. I really hope Jeff doesn't pay attention to posts lobbying for a change in the recipe on this one. This one should be all his. If someone thinks the costs outweigh the power level then I say just don't make it.

But this one's a gamble. All it will take is a Legendary Stone or Arcanum Charm or something and then all of a sudden the people that thought the power level wasn't right will be scrambling to acquire more of them or lobbying for a reprint or more expander options.

I agree it should stay as is, this is a special token. This one day may Transmute into a Legendary for all we know. Even if it doesn't it's a dual expander in one slot, that's really great!

I think everyone knows it’s all set now they are just voicing thoughts/opinions, I personally like seeing everyone's reaction/commentary, different perspectives are good. Hopefully no one will do another under the forum radar covert operation to lobby changes on any token, that should always be dismissed going forward.

There is some discussion of the recipe cost. When compared to druid and rogue relics is averages
3 less ink
2 less parchment
12 less planks
2 less steel
1 more Bismuth
1 less golden fleece (while requiring 6 Monster Bits, so 4 less MB?)
1 more hide
6 less silk
1 more oil
10.5 less stones
1 less UR
1 less rare
6 more fragments

Not saying if this makes it more or less just wanted to provide the data.

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:

Arnold wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: Spot on analysis!
For all the talk of Power Creep the Ranger Legendary & the Slot expansion seemed to fly under the radar pretty unscathed. This years development and some big choices were a bit perplexing.

Do you think the Ranger Legendary is OP? I thought it was on the weaker end in this class.

I don’t want to derail the thread so I’ll make it quick to answer your question, Absolutely. Rangers (My second default class BTW as all my equipment carries over seamlessly) gets a little too much love above all other classes. +9 Damage every round with range, +5 Con (That stat alone is Legendary), Animal & Reading scrolls is way OP. When they get a second Elm cloak +9 to Con. It’s not even partially situational or balanced like the rest in my view.

Got it. I think we disagree on this one. I don't think +5 CON is legendary level. Medallion of Valhalla really changed how I think about CON. The damage bump was necessary, imo, to make Ranged Ranger more viable. Also, as OrionW pointed out- a fully stacked Ranged Rogue is still going to outgun/DPS a fully stacked Ranged Ranger, all Legendaries considered.

Animal Companion is hard to quantify. I don't know that it's broken, as most polymorph wheels have an average dmg that peeks at 6 anyway. Charm of Shadow Shot would be hands down the better choice with one caveat - Animal Companion can land a hit on its own. Burning a consumable every round of combat to free up a charm slot with the upside of calculating its own to-hit seems interesting and balanced. I really like this aspect of the Ranger Legendary - it presents an interesting choice and not an automatic one.

2 Scrolls has lots of implications. I think the best part will be that a Ranger with Ralsons can carry more "oh crap" status debuffs.

I guess I just really liked where the Ranger Necklace ended up.

Arnold wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:

Arnold wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: Spot on analysis!
For all the talk of Power Creep the Ranger Legendary & the Slot expansion seemed to fly under the radar pretty unscathed. This years development and some big choices were a bit perplexing.

Do you think the Ranger Legendary is OP? I thought it was on the weaker end in this class.

I don’t want to derail the thread so I’ll make it quick to answer your question, Absolutely. Rangers (My second default class BTW as all my equipment carries over seamlessly) gets a little too much love above all other classes. +9 Damage every round with range, +5 Con (That stat alone is Legendary), Animal & Reading scrolls is way OP. When they get a second Elm cloak +9 to Con. It’s not even partially situational or balanced like the rest in my view.

Got it. I think we disagree on this one. I don't think +5 CON is legendary level. Medallion of Valhalla really changed how I think about CON. The damage bump was necessary, imo, to make Ranged Ranger more viable. Also, as OrionW pointed out- a fully stacked Ranged Rogue is still going to outgun/DPS a fully stacked Ranged Ranger, all Legendaries considered.

Animal Companion is hard to quantify. I don't know that it's broken, as most polymorph wheels have an average dmg that peeks at 6 anyway. Charm of Shadow Shot would be hands down the better choice with one caveat - Animal Companion can land a hit on its own. Burning a consumable every round of combat to free up a charm slot with the upside of calculating its own to-hit seems interesting and balanced. I really like this aspect of the Ranger Legendary - it presents an interesting choice and not an automatic one.

2 Scrolls has lots of implications. I think the best part will be that a Ranger with Ralsons can carry more "oh crap" status debuffs.

I guess I just really liked where the Ranger Necklace ended up.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I thought rogues' sneak attack damage does not get multiplied unless you have Night Shade's short sword or Viper Strike set. I believe Jeff even said the viper strike set does not benefit from the expanded crit range on the legendary necklace unless you have Asher's.

Joshua Long wrote:

Arnold wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:

Arnold wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: Spot on analysis!
For all the talk of Power Creep the Ranger Legendary & the Slot expansion seemed to fly under the radar pretty unscathed. This years development and some big choices were a bit perplexing.

Do you think the Ranger Legendary is OP? I thought it was on the weaker end in this class.

I don’t want to derail the thread so I’ll make it quick to answer your question, Absolutely. Rangers (My second default class BTW as all my equipment carries over seamlessly) gets a little too much love above all other classes. +9 Damage every round with range, +5 Con (That stat alone is Legendary), Animal & Reading scrolls is way OP. When they get a second Elm cloak +9 to Con. It’s not even partially situational or balanced like the rest in my view.

Got it. I think we disagree on this one. I don't think +5 CON is legendary level. Medallion of Valhalla really changed how I think about CON. The damage bump was necessary, imo, to make Ranged Ranger more viable. Also, as OrionW pointed out- a fully stacked Ranged Rogue is still going to outgun/DPS a fully stacked Ranged Ranger, all Legendaries considered.

Animal Companion is hard to quantify. I don't know that it's broken, as most polymorph wheels have an average dmg that peeks at 6 anyway. Charm of Shadow Shot would be hands down the better choice with one caveat - Animal Companion can land a hit on its own. Burning a consumable every round of combat to free up a charm slot with the upside of calculating its own to-hit seems interesting and balanced. I really like this aspect of the Ranger Legendary - it presents an interesting choice and not an automatic one.

2 Scrolls has lots of implications. I think the best part will be that a Ranger with Ralsons can carry more "oh crap" status debuffs.

I guess I just really liked where the Ranger Necklace ended up.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I thought rogues' sneak attack damage does not get multiplied unless you have Night Shade's short sword or Viper Strike set. I believe Jeff even said the viper strike set does not benefit from the expanded crit range on the legendary necklace unless you have Asher's.

The Assassin's crossbow is also on the list of items that work, as it does not require a natural 20.
tokendb.com/token/2-assassins-crossbow/

The new Legendary items are very powerful and are going to result in some epic levels of damage.

Joshua Long wrote: I thought rogues' sneak attack damage does not get multiplied unless you have Night Shade's short sword or Viper Strike set.

OrionW wrote: The Assassin's crossbow is also on the list of items that work, as it does not require a natural 20.
tokendb.com/token/2-assassins-crossbow/

+2 Assassin's Crossbow (by itself) does not multiply Sneak Attack damage.
from the PHB:
Note: The +15 (+20 at 5th level) damage bonus from a sneak attack is not subject to doubling on a critical hit, unless Nightshade's +2 Short Sword or a Viper Strike fang under the influence of the Viper Strike Set bonus is used. (If a Viper Strike fang is used while not under the Viper Strike set effect, the extra damage is not doubled.)