TOPIC: Monster Trophies at Origins - Can we get an official response before Gen Con?

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: FYI. Kirk had that price before the Origins even started. But nobody paid attention to that

Yes, that's correct. I had no idea there were going to be fewer 2019 trophies. What I did know about was my supply of 2016 and 2017 trophies being fairly limited compared to what I expect to be high demand for the new bead. In my case even now I'm thinking 2019 won't be my constraint, so I think the price doesn't need to change for me. Is the price too high? Maybe. But I'm confident if I set it much lower I'll move through them too quickly and in a year or two I'll be all out. One of my goals is to keep tokens in stock so that people know they can come to me for just about any token they want.

Kirk Bauer wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: FYI. Kirk had that price before the Origins even started. But nobody paid attention to that

Yes, that's correct. I had no idea there were going to be fewer 2019 trophies. What I did know about was my supply of 2016 and 2017 trophies being fairly limited compared to what I expect to be high demand for the new bead. In my case even now I'm thinking 2019 won't be my constraint, so I think the price doesn't need to change for me. Is the price too high? Maybe. But I'm confident if I set it much lower I'll move through them too quickly and in a year or two I'll be all out. One of my goals is to keep tokens in stock so that people know they can come to me for just about any token they want.

I was just trying to say you had that price before the con started. that you didnt know. I think some were implying you did that price after. I was trying to say you had that pre con. I dont think you are over or under price.

Kirk Bauer wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: FYI. Kirk had that price before the Origins even started. But nobody paid attention to that

Yes, that's correct. I had no idea there were going to be fewer 2019 trophies. What I did know about was my supply of 2016 and 2017 trophies being fairly limited compared to what I expect to be high demand for the new bead. In my case even now I'm thinking 2019 won't be my constraint, so I think the price doesn't need to change for me. Is the price too high? Maybe. But I'm confident if I set it much lower I'll move through them too quickly and in a year or two I'll be all out. One of my goals is to keep tokens in stock so that people know they can come to me for just about any token they want.

I absolutely love that about your site by the way. If I want to find some old token, like a shield of venom ward, or Helm of the Eagle, I'm always fairly confident I can find it on your site.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: FYI. Kirk had that price before the Origins even started. But nobody paid attention to that

Yes, that's correct. I had no idea there were going to be fewer 2019 trophies. What I did know about was my supply of 2016 and 2017 trophies being fairly limited compared to what I expect to be high demand for the new bead. In my case even now I'm thinking 2019 won't be my constraint, so I think the price doesn't need to change for me. Is the price too high? Maybe. But I'm confident if I set it much lower I'll move through them too quickly and in a year or two I'll be all out. One of my goals is to keep tokens in stock so that people know they can come to me for just about any token they want.

I was just trying to say you had that price before the con started. that you didnt know. I think some were implying you did that price after. I was trying to say you had that pre con. I dont think you are over or under price.

And all I’m saying is that a price two to three times the historical average is to me a big red flag.

I’m a free-marketeer, so people can charge whatever they want, as long as they aren’t defrauding anyone or scalping newbies.

Here’s my thought. If Jeff meant what he said literally, that he ordered the same number of bits as last year, then there’s going to be a shortage. E.g. if he ordered 150 of each last year for a total of 600, that’s only 100 of each this year. A lot get turned into Fleece and 3- and 4-stars, but that’s still a big hit, and there will be a lot of disappointment.

So let people substitute a 1k bar for two 2019s, once per Bead. That tweak to the recipe evens things out without altering the mix, and doesn’t hurt anyone who already made beads. People still have to get double the TCs to draw four, but that’s better than triple. Historically, a bit has been pegged at 300gp, so 500 would be more, but I think that’s a fair compromise.

If you don’t like the idea of changing the recipe at all, remember we already had one accidental change in the mix and a lot of people don’t like that either, and, as many have observed, there are no guarantees.

It’s a serious proposal but I don’t expect anyone to agree.

But Jeff did say this situation was a mistake, not intentional, and something like this seems to me like the easiest and most painless way to correct it

Brad Mortensen wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: FYI. Kirk had that price before the Origins even started. But nobody paid attention to that

Yes, that's correct. I had no idea there were going to be fewer 2019 trophies. What I did know about was my supply of 2016 and 2017 trophies being fairly limited compared to what I expect to be high demand for the new bead. In my case even now I'm thinking 2019 won't be my constraint, so I think the price doesn't need to change for me. Is the price too high? Maybe. But I'm confident if I set it much lower I'll move through them too quickly and in a year or two I'll be all out. One of my goals is to keep tokens in stock so that people know they can come to me for just about any token they want.

I was just trying to say you had that price before the con started. that you didnt know. I think some were implying you did that price after. I was trying to say you had that pre con. I dont think you are over or under price.

And all I’m saying is that a price two to three times the historical average is to me a big red flag.

I’m a free-marketeer, so people can charge whatever they want, as long as they aren’t defrauding anyone or scalping newbies.

Here’s my thought. If Jeff meant what he said literally, that he ordered the same number of bits as last year, then there’s going to be a shortage. E.g. if he ordered 150 of each last year for a total of 600, that’s only 100 of each this year. A lot get turned into Fleece and 3- and 4-stars, but that’s still a big hit, and there will be a lot of disappointment.

So let people substitute a 1k bar for two 2019s, once per Bead. That tweak to the recipe evens things out without altering the mix, and doesn’t hurt anyone who already made beads. People still have to get double the TCs to draw four, but that’s better than triple. Historically, a bit has been pegged at 300gp, so 500 would be more, but I think that’s a fair compromise.

If you don’t like the idea of changing the recipe at all, remember we already had one accidental change in the mix and a lot of people don’t like that either, and, as many have observed, there are no guarantees.

It’s a serious proposal but I don’t expect anyone to agree.

But Jeff did say this situation was a mistake, not intentional, and something like this seems to me like the easiest and most painless way to correct it

I agree completely for what it's worth. Make the official recipe one of each 2019 or any 4 unique 2019s and 1000gp.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: FYI. Kirk had that price before the Origins even started. But nobody paid attention to that

Yes, that's correct. I had no idea there were going to be fewer 2019 trophies. What I did know about was my supply of 2016 and 2017 trophies being fairly limited compared to what I expect to be high demand for the new bead. In my case even now I'm thinking 2019 won't be my constraint, so I think the price doesn't need to change for me. Is the price too high? Maybe. But I'm confident if I set it much lower I'll move through them too quickly and in a year or two I'll be all out. One of my goals is to keep tokens in stock so that people know they can come to me for just about any token they want.

I was just trying to say you had that price before the con started. that you didnt know. I think some were implying you did that price after. I was trying to say you had that pre con. I dont think you are over or under price.

And all I’m saying is that a price two to three times the historical average is to me a big red flag.

I’m a free-marketeer, so people can charge whatever they want, as long as they aren’t defrauding anyone or scalping newbies.

Here’s my thought. If Jeff meant what he said literally, that he ordered the same number of bits as last year, then there’s going to be a shortage. E.g. if he ordered 150 of each last year for a total of 600, that’s only 100 of each this year. A lot get turned into Fleece and 3- and 4-stars, but that’s still a big hit, and there will be a lot of disappointment.

So let people substitute a 1k bar for two 2019s, once per Bead. That tweak to the recipe evens things out without altering the mix, and doesn’t hurt anyone who already made beads. People still have to get double the TCs to draw four, but that’s better than triple. Historically, a bit has been pegged at 300gp, so 500 would be more, but I think that’s a fair compromise.

If you don’t like the idea of changing the recipe at all, remember we already had one accidental change in the mix and a lot of people don’t like that either, and, as many have observed, there are no guarantees.

It’s a serious proposal but I don’t expect anyone to agree.

But Jeff did say this situation was a mistake, not intentional, and something like this seems to me like the easiest and most painless way to correct it

Except it is not historical price. Those come down after more hit the market. Origins was the first con. HISTORICALLY they are always high at first. Just like volunteer tokens.

There are 3 more cons worth of monster bits.
People are acting like the world is on fire.

Make some trades and stop wanting things handed to you. A little wheeling and dealing you will be able to get what you need. It won’t break the bank.
If you actually read what I posted and do it like that. It will help the community has a whole.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: There are 3 more cons worth of monster bits.
People are acting like the world is on fire.

Make some trades and stop wanting things handed to you. A little wheeling and dealing you will be able to get what you need. It won’t break the bank.
If you actually read what I posted and do it like that. It will help the community has a whole.

People aren't acting like the world is on fire. People are acting like a mistake was made that will negatively impact all players of the game by lowering the amount of monster bit tokens drawn from treasure this year due to not ordering the correct amount for the increase in overall treasure. This is a stated fact and people are looking for solutions to the issue.

No one is asking for things to be handed to them, we are asking for the owner of the company, who reported the printing error, to make some form of change to the use of the tokens that were incorrectly under printed so that the error is resolved by the group that made the error, not the player base.

Your suggestion of trading with the community does not take into account the fact that pretty much anyone looking to complete sets of monster bits already does 1:1 bit swaps in order to complete their sets. Suggesting people trade to complete their sets does nothing to solve this in this instance.

If your suggestion is to trade other tokens in order to get monster bits due to TPTD making a printing error that is leaving the fix of the error on the heads and wallets of the community. That should not be how it's resolved.

I honestly like the suggested change of allowing any 4 unique 2019 bits and 1000 gold as a secondary crafting piece. It doesn't address the lower distribution of 2019 monster bits but it allows for the community to have a second valid option for creating beads that most players would be able to do if they play enough to gather the rest of the tokens.

It honestly sounds like the best fix to the error we are going to get, as I assume printing a second set of monster bits and having them in time for gencon isn't possible to resolve the supply problem.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: There are 3 more cons worth of monster bits.
People are acting like the world is on fire.

Make some trades and stop wanting things handed to you. A little wheeling and dealing you will be able to get what you need. It won’t break the bank.
If you actually read what I posted and do it like that. It will help the community has a whole.

People aren't acting like the world is on fire. People are acting like a mistake was made that will negatively impact all players of the game by lowering the amount of monster bit tokens drawn from treasure this year due to not ordering the correct amount for the increase in overall treasure. This is a stated fact and people are looking for solutions to the issue.

No one is asking for things to be handed to them, we are asking for the owner of the company, who reported the printing error, to make some form of change to the use of the tokens that were incorrectly under printed so that the error is resolved by the group that made the error, not the player base.

Your suggestion of trading with the community does not take into account the fact that pretty much anyone looking to complete sets of monster bits already does 1:1 bit swaps in order to complete their sets. Suggesting people trade to complete their sets does nothing to solve this in this instance.

If your suggestion is to trade other tokens in order to get monster bits due to TPTD making a printing error that is leaving the fix of the error on the heads and wallets of the community. That should not be how it's resolved.

I honestly like the suggested change of allowing any 4 unique 2019 bits and 1000 gold as a secondary crafting piece. It doesn't address the lower distribution of 2019 monster bits but it allows for the community to have a second valid option for creating beads that most players would be able to do if they play enough to gather the rest of the tokens.

It honestly sounds like the best fix to the error we are going to get, as I assume printing a second set of monster bits and having them in time for gencon isn't possible to resolve the supply problem.

Except you are. You are complaining and you have not even been to Gen Con yet.
Maybe after gen con I could see revisiting. Yes people are acting like it’s the end of the world because there are fewer monster bits.
So if TPTB correct it by not requiring them for 2020 enhanced tokens that will be a fix.
Some people are wanting it changed NOW for
The BEAD. That is ridiculous.
I did no treasure draws at Origins. I traded with new people to get sets of Bits and fragments.
So it can be done. I proved it. Even at a small con.
And I was volunteering from 730am to 630pm. I did my trades after that.
So it’s not that difficult.

So I don’t see why people are complaining. I Made it work. I didn’t break the bank. I used last years bits. And gave them what they needed to make 3 star or a few were a couple items short on 4star. So I helped there.
I think I got a few more people hooked on TD because of that.

I tried something new and it worked.
Told everyone how to do it. I found a solution that helped the community, didn’t rip off new players , didn’t break the bank and actually got people interacting

One more time: Spelled out more clearly
Me" hey I see you just finsihed a TD run. Did you have fun?"
New player "yes It was awesome"
Me" great did you do your treasure pulls"
NP: "yes, this is what I got"
Me: those are good, but see this is a monster bit. it is used in transmutes (then I explain the Bead how its the end of 4 year arc, it would cost them $ to get everything else). But I could trade you last years monster bit 2 DWP and 100 GP sculpture (figurine of dog)
or
2x50 GP Icewood Canteen, 2x200 GP equivalent(canteen)
These will get you a transmute item which will help you build your character(s) for your next run, where that 2019 monster bit will not.

almost everyone took me up on a some sort of trade (some just wanted a rare weapon or armor)

i made my trades more in their favor
A. because they were new
2. because they had what I wanted
d. it was just nice to welcome them to the game

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: FYI. Kirk had that price before the Origins even started. But nobody paid attention to that

Yes, that's correct. I had no idea there were going to be fewer 2019 trophies. What I did know about was my supply of 2016 and 2017 trophies being fairly limited compared to what I expect to be high demand for the new bead. In my case even now I'm thinking 2019 won't be my constraint, so I think the price doesn't need to change for me. Is the price too high? Maybe. But I'm confident if I set it much lower I'll move through them too quickly and in a year or two I'll be all out. One of my goals is to keep tokens in stock so that people know they can come to me for just about any token they want.

I was just trying to say you had that price before the con started. that you didnt know. I think some were implying you did that price after. I was trying to say you had that pre con. I dont think you are over or under price.

And all I’m saying is that a price two to three times the historical average is to me a big red flag.

I’m a free-marketeer, so people can charge whatever they want, as long as they aren’t defrauding anyone or scalping newbies.

Here’s my thought. If Jeff meant what he said literally, that he ordered the same number of bits as last year, then there’s going to be a shortage. E.g. if he ordered 150 of each last year for a total of 600, that’s only 100 of each this year. A lot get turned into Fleece and 3- and 4-stars, but that’s still a big hit, and there will be a lot of disappointment.

So let people substitute a 1k bar for two 2019s, once per Bead. That tweak to the recipe evens things out without altering the mix, and doesn’t hurt anyone who already made beads. People still have to get double the TCs to draw four, but that’s better than triple. Historically, a bit has been pegged at 300gp, so 500 would be more, but I think that’s a fair compromise.

If you don’t like the idea of changing the recipe at all, remember we already had one accidental change in the mix and a lot of people don’t like that either, and, as many have observed, there are no guarantees.

It’s a serious proposal but I don’t expect anyone to agree.

But Jeff did say this situation was a mistake, not intentional, and something like this seems to me like the easiest and most painless way to correct it

Except it is not historical price. Those come down after more hit the market. Origins was the first con. HISTORICALLY they are always high at first. Just like volunteer tokens.

Wrong, Chad. I was referring to at any pre-2018 recipe, where recipes included things like “one bit OR 300gp.” That exchange rate was decided by TDA, not the secondary market. You’re correct that players often trade at a different rate.

Kirk Bauer wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: FYI. Kirk had that price before the Origins even started. But nobody paid attention to that

Yes, that's correct. I had no idea there were going to be fewer 2019 trophies. What I did know about was my supply of 2016 and 2017 trophies being fairly limited compared to what I expect to be high demand for the new bead. In my case even now I'm thinking 2019 won't be my constraint, so I think the price doesn't need to change for me. Is the price too high? Maybe. But I'm confident if I set it much lower I'll move through them too quickly and in a year or two I'll be all out. One of my goals is to keep tokens in stock so that people know they can come to me for just about any token they want.

Kirk has been pretty transparent about his prices being his prices vs maybe the going rate, he charges what his restock would be which makes sense for his business.