TOPIC: Bracelets of Zephyr and Crown of Expertise

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Druegar wrote: It's late and I'm feeling unusually think-headed. Might I trouble y'all for an "Executive Summery" of the question please?

Let me take a stab at it:

The question in particular is: Can a 5th level Wizard cast Lightning Storm twice in one round (which only has one box on the card) by using Crown of Expertise and Bracelets of the Zephyr.

If yes, how does that work? If no, why not?

The question as pertains to the general rules is:

The TDb entry says of Bracelets of the Zephyr in parenthetical text:
(Both spells are marked off the player's card.)
Is this just reminder text, or is this a 'cost' of using the Bracelets of the Zephyr. Because if it's a 'cost', then the cost becomes impossible to pay if you use Crown of Expertise on your standard action spell.

That was probably written in the time of old, prior to the existence of the Crown of Expertise.

Tentative Answer:
No, because Bracelets of the Zephyr requires the spell to be cast from the character card and, strictly speaking, Crown of Expertise 's bonus spell is not cast from the character card.

Druegar wrote: Tentative Answer:
No, because Bracelets of the Zephyr requires the spell to be cast from the character card and, strictly speaking, Crown of Expertise 's bonus spell is not cast from the character card.

There are two scenarios for Crown of Expertise:

Line of play #1:

On my turn I have an un-crossed-off lightning storm.

1. Standard action: I cast lightning storm as a standard action with Crown of Expertise, the result is lightning storm is still not crossed off my card.

2. Free action: I use my Bracelets of the Zephyr, to cast lighting storm, which is crossed off my card.

Line of play #2:

On my turn I have an un-crossed-off lightning storm.

1. Standard action: I cast lightning storm as a standard action. It is crossed off the card.

2. Free action: I use my Bracelets of the Zephyr and Crown of Expertise to cast lighting storm, which is crossed off my card.

I would understand pretty well if line of play #2 is not allowed.

Prohibiting line of play #1 seems weird to me - I don't by know BoZ would care about where the standard action spell that was case before I started using it came from.

Making BoZ that way is going to lead to follow up questions about Cleric's restore spell, and Charm of Spell Swapping.

I’m all for getting an additional spell but I don’t see any synergy between the two tokens..

Bob Chasan wrote: I’m all for getting an additional spell but I don’t see any synergy between the two tokens..

It’s not a matter of synergy.

It’s a matter of whether bracelets of the zephyr requires you to have “naturally” cast your standard action spell from the card and had it crossed off, or whether it just cares that one of the spells from you card was cast as a standard action (even if it came from Crown of Expertise, Charm of Spell Swapping, or other effects).

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote: I’m all for getting an additional spell but I don’t see any synergy between the two tokens..

It’s not a matter of synergy.

It’s a matter of whether bracelets of the zephyr requires you to have “naturally” cast your standard action spell from the card and had it crossed off, or whether it just cares that one of the spells from you card was cast as a standard action (even if it came from Crown of Expertise, Charm of Spell Swapping, or other effects).

My apologies in that I wasn’t specific enough.
I was particularly looking at scenerio 2 in which a standard action was used then a combo of BoZ and CoE to again cast .
I read it several times and it seems to me that there are 3 actions being taken.

CoE doesn’t say “cast,” it says “use” a spell. A strict rules-lawyery reading says that, in MH’s scenario 1, the player is “using” a spell without crossing it off.

If “using” is a synonym for “casting,” them I’d think you could BoZ it.

If it isn’t, then not only can’t you BoZ it, but focus shouldn’t apply either, because focus items only apply to Spells that are cast (see TokenDB entries tokendb.com/?fwp_token_search=Focus )

Brad Mortensen wrote: CoE doesn’t say “cast,” it says “use” a spell. A strict rules-lawyery reading says that, in MH’s scenario 1, the player is “using” a spell without crossing it off.

If “using” is a synonym for “casting,” them I’d think you could BoZ it.

If it isn’t, then not only can’t you BoZ it, but focus shouldn’t apply either, because focus items only apply to Spells that are cast (see TokenDB entries tokendb.com/?fwp_token_search=Focus )

IMO Scenario #1 is the correct process, and it works. Bottom line is....??