TOPIC: Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable

Fiddy wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I think the teeth, if they are going to require anything to transmute other than the teeth themselves, should require "any UR token that grants access to higher level psychic power"
This would already be more than the Rod took, but imagine if you came in late, acquired the first couple teeth, but used either a charming crown or now dark Disciples shirt to access the power, then had to go back to find the Ioun stone.

Yes, situational tokens can easily be forgotten. I think, with this years power, we will see a lot more psychic used. Will saves are pretty common, and game changing. Passing where you otherwise might have failed is a big deal.

Like when an Ogre Magi casts sleep and the whole party fails...

The new bard legendary might also help there...

But yes, like that.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I think the teeth, if they are going to require anything to transmute other than the teeth themselves, should require "any UR token that grants access to higher level psychic power"
This would already be more than the Rod took, but imagine if you came in late, acquired the first couple teeth, but used either a charming crown or now dark Disciples shirt to access the power, then had to go back to find the Ioun stone.

Yes, situational tokens can easily be forgotten. I think, with this years power, we will see a lot more psychic used. Will saves are pretty common, and game changing. Passing where you otherwise might have failed is a big deal.

No eldritch transmute has ever required a ur in the recipe other than the collected eldritch tokens. I, for one, think it should stay that way. If it were to change, I would advocate announcing that at the start of a cycle, not the end.

I’m guessing that the Transmute
will give access to all 7 powers,
Making it really nice.
As for now,
We could really use a usage update,
One power use with one Tooth
Two usages at 4
Three at 6

How about going forward this slot in the order package is always a component for the rod of seven parts, and the transmute is made evergreen? The item is iconic and it would make sense for it to be available. ThIs would make these items always desirable to new players. Not my original idea, but I think it has merit.

Orion Wiseman wrote: How about going forward this slot in the order package is always a component for the rod of seven parts, and the transmute is made evergreen? The item is iconic and it would make sense for it to be available. ThIs would make these items always desirable to new players. Not my original idea, but I think it has merit.

This would crash the value of RoSP from ~1800-2500 today to ~1000 overnight.

That, in turn would not be good for the secondary market. That, in turn can realistically cause a decline in demand for tokens, which would not be good for TD.

I'd recommend against it.

I could get behind something that doesn't have such a dramatic impact on the secondary market, like announce now-ish that in the 2023 transmute season there will be the following recipes (2023 - Dec. 1 2024):

Rod of Seven Parts: Any 50 RoSP Segments or Xth Tooth of Cavadar
Teeth of Cavadar (or whatever it's called): Any 50 RoSP Segments or Xth Tooth of Cavadar

That would hoover up extra segments and teeth, would give people now a chance to start collecting towards either RoSP or Mask of Cavadar, and not crash the value of any tokens, nor put a long term ceiling on them. The 2023 season is selected as by then the Teeth of Cavadar will no longer be transmutable by it's normal recipe.

If it goes well, a similar recipe could be opened periodically, as conditions merit.

50 pieces is an insane amount. 14 would be a ton for the rod - there can't be that many around that could transmute.

Could always reprint the rod pieces and transmute every 14 years though. Can't imagine that long of a duration would have a huge impact on the secondary Market, not that I think TD has to be overly concerned about the long term value of items on the secondary market.

Endgame wrote: 50 pieces is an insane amount. 14 would be a ton for the rod - there can't be that many around that could transmute.

Could always reprint the rod pieces and transmute every 14 years though. Can't imagine that long of a duration would have a huge impact on the secondary Market, not that I think TD has to be overly concerned about the long term value of items on the secondary market.

Is it "insane" though?

The basic transmute requires 7, and additional components that would cost the same as 2-3 more pieces.

So the basic transmutes costs ~10 "pieces" - but they have to be the right ones.

Having a 5x factor in additional cost for the flexibility of being able to use any pieces does not seem at all insane to me.

I'm not sure if you're exactly understanding the proposal, I'm proposing you could trade in any 50 segments or teeth for either a RoSP or a Teeth of Cavadar. So you could trade 50 7th tooth of Cavadar for a RoSP.

There are going to be lots, and lots, and lots of 4rd-7th tooth of cavadar floating around after the transmutation period ends. These tokens are going to be more or less worthless*. Being able to trade in 50 more or less worthless tokens for one that is worth ~2000 seems like a pretty good deal to me.

What exactly about this proposal is so unreasonable to you? What value would you target on components for a re-opened transmute window on RoSP?

* They will be basically worthless except to collectors, or unless we print a slotless psychic enabler token, which would be a real kick in the teeth to people who have spent PyP money for slotted ones. By "basically worthless" I mean I would expect them to trade hands for under $50 - probably as low as $5.

So you would allow teeth to be used to create a rod of 7 parts? That may be interesting, but it's still quite expensive.

If we look at the original cost of either item if purchased at time of release, we are looking at 700(ish) especially with teeth valued at 75 or less. Your proposal puts a cost out there of 3750 if we assume 75 per tooth. The price will skyrocket very quickly after a few batches of 50 teeth are made.

Target something at 1400 or lower , and we may be onto something, with late comers able to create a rod at double price. Or just reprint every so often.

Endgame wrote: So you would allow teeth to be used to create a rod of 7 parts? That may be interesting, but it's still quite expensive.

If we look at the original cost of either item if purchased at time of release, we are looking at 700(ish) especially with teeth valued at 75 or less. Your proposal puts a cost out there of 3750 if we assume 75 per tooth. The price will skyrocket very quickly after a few batches of 50 teeth are made.

Target something at 1400 or lower , and we may be onto something, with late comers able to create a rod at double price. Or just reprint every so often.

RoSP never cost $700. It was ~$2000 from jump.

Now - you may have been able to acquire the tokens needed for a RoSP $700 over a 7 year period - but that's not the same thing.

Part of why we're having this thread at all is people are having a hard time selling teeth at $50 a piece right now.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote: So you would allow teeth to be used to create a rod of 7 parts? That may be interesting, but it's still quite expensive.

If we look at the original cost of either item if purchased at time of release, we are looking at 700(ish) especially with teeth valued at 75 or less. Your proposal puts a cost out there of 3750 if we assume 75 per tooth. The price will skyrocket very quickly after a few batches of 50 teeth are made.

Target something at 1400 or lower , and we may be onto something, with late comers able to create a rod at double price. Or just reprint every so often.

RoSP never cost $700. It was ~$2000 from jump.

Now - you may have been able to acquire the tokens needed for a RoSP $700 over a 7 year period - but that's not the same thing.

Well that's exactly the same thing. The cost is the cost when purchased over 7 years. Everything else is just the markup for not being around early enough.

Part of why we're having this thread at all is people are having a hard time selling teeth at $50 a piece right now.

Yep - I still think the best plan is the lesser and greater transmute, but that doesn't help for the teeth

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote: So you would allow teeth to be used to create a rod of 7 parts? That may be interesting, but it's still quite expensive.

If we look at the original cost of either item if purchased at time of release, we are looking at 700(ish) especially with teeth valued at 75 or less. Your proposal puts a cost out there of 3750 if we assume 75 per tooth. The price will skyrocket very quickly after a few batches of 50 teeth are made.

Target something at 1400 or lower , and we may be onto something, with late comers able to create a rod at double price. Or just reprint every so often.

RoSP never cost $700. It was ~$2000 from jump.

Now - you may have been able to acquire the tokens needed for a RoSP $700 over a 7 year period - but that's not the same thing.

Well that's exactly the same thing. The cost is the cost when purchased over 7 years. Everything else is just the markup for not being around early enough.

It is clear that spending $100 a year over 7 years is not "exactly the same thing" as spending $700 at the end of a seven year period. We need to be able to agree on this before we continue the conversation.

Matthew Hayward wrote: It is clear that spending $100 a year over 7 years is not "exactly the same thing" as spending $700 at the end of a seven year period. We need to be able to agree on this before we continue the conversation.

Compound interest and opportunity cost would definitely agree with you.