TOPIC: Run Profit Calculator

So couple points, in principle what you isn't a bad idea but it does have some issues. Mainly you wouldn't be able to buy complete runs to get the difficulty you wanted unless you had your group entirely sorted before tickets went live at which point there is still no guarantee you would get the run.

Re grind, my first year I thought grind was literally the same as the main dungeon just with zero props/puzzles so serious fans could grind xp. That said the main issue there is the volunteer staff, there aren't enough. Grind only really has one shift (aka 200 tickets) the decision was made to not allow TEs largely to make it less likely that all the tickets would disappear in the first few seconds.

Volunteers as it turns out are one of the main limitations on TDs growth. They can never get enough, they always need more, and people generally only attend cons for a few years before life gets in the way/they get board (which makes retention an issue for the more complex rolls (like grind gm))

@Matthew - I’m not surprised we have large areas of agreement. We both try to be logical. If we start from different sets of assumptions we get different conclusions, but we’re willing to discuss things rationally. I try to keep my frustration in check, but sometimes it pokes its nose out.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Did you actually fill in values to get to $100 profit on 6 tickets - or was that just an example?

Mostly a ROM example, but using your data. $3.25/TC (lowering fees for forum trades) * 23 - $58 ( Origins ticket) = about $17 profit per ticket, times 6 (player plus 5 ghosts) = $100. Ish. Not counting 10 packs, or completion buttons and tokens.

Brad Mortensen wrote: @Matthew - I’m not surprised we have large areas of agreement. We both try to be logical. If we start from different sets of assumptions we get different conclusions, but we’re willing to discuss things rationally. I try to keep my frustration in check, but sometimes it pokes its nose out.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Did you actually fill in values to get to $100 profit on 6 tickets - or was that just an example?

Mostly a ROM example, but using your data. $3.25/TC (lowering fees for forum trades) * 23 - $58 ( Origins ticket) = about $17 profit per ticket, times 6 (player plus 5 ghosts) = $100. Ish. Not counting 10 packs, or completion buttons and tokens.

Brad, aren't we at 21 max TC and not 23?

Michael Ernst wrote: TD at GenCon and selling out within hours I think they need to look at how tickets are sold. Not saying they need to ban ghosting, I'll get to that shortly. But I think they need to limit how tickets are available for purchased. I believe it would be best for the game to only allow people to buy tickets for others on their friend list.

Sorry but no. I don't know if electronic tickets will return for TD (I imagine they will but they may not). I bought tickets for friends one year and when you do that with physical tickets they go to their packet. So when one of my friends had emergency heart surgery and could not make it to Gen Con that year the ticket was free money to Gen Con because I could not return a ticket that was in not in my possession. Secondly maybe you know which of your friends can make it Gen Con in May or will be free when you get tickets in May for the times you can get tickets. I unfortunately don't have that ability. I have another friend that is dealing with Chemo and won't know about his Gen Con status until probably the week of Gen Con. I have other friends that won't buy badges till well after when tickets go on sale. People don't show up for runs for various reason, so if they have the ticket then either I get a random off the waitlist or I would have to run with less people. I would rather have the ticket and find someone that I want to run with when they don't show.

I don't think electronic tickets solve this either (probably make this worse) if you assign the ticket to someone because you need their badge to check the ticket in. Previous if you could get the ticket of the person not able to make it you could give it to someone else. With the E-ticket their badge would need to be present.

I have no issue if Jeff wants to limit ghosting at GC further either by number or treasure limits. Making everyone jump through additional hoops to get tickets I feel is asking too much. I already spend routinely 4 to 6 hours working to get tickets when they go on sale for Gen Con.

Now we get to something that maybe only started this year, I don't know. The "draw" for pre-purchase of TD tickets at GenCon. Based on preorders of tokens. Won't quote the preorder rules cuz im lazy but goes something like this. For each 10 pack you're entered into a drawing. So many people will be selected and they can pick one run to buy tickets for, all 10 or just a few. For the true diehard token purchasers that is your way to do ghost runs as well without worrying about friends list at GenCon. Maybe tie it to the Patron button that is normally at origins and remove the random draw feature for the patron holders. And no I'm not that big of Token buyer to qualify for that perk.

Here are the rules"Gen Con Ticket Draw

On March 20th, 2019, we will hold a special drawing from the names of all the 2019 token buyers to date. Ten lucky token buyers will win. Each winner can "pre-buy" up to 10 tickets at Gen Con (from one slot) before anyone else! Winners will be contacted on March. 20th and have until March 25th to pick their event slot (and pay for the tickets). If we do not hear back from a winner by March 25th, then another name will be drawn. True Dungeon event tickets go on sale for everyone in May. For every 10-pack you buy, we put your name in the virtual hat. Winners are guaranteed to get the exact slot they want without having to worry about the crazy time during event registration. You still must buy the tickets at the normal price.

REMEMBER: The more tokens you buy, the greater your chance of winning!"
It has been expressed to us that Gen Con does not like this type of thing. So it cannot expand.

As Picc pointed out Volunteers a big component for size limit of TD. But also moving on to the field would be a new nightmare for Jeff and Co. It would be a much bigger space to control the atmosphere of. For a Convention Hall you turn off the lights and put up walls. I cannot even begin to imagine the logistics for turning LOS' field into the right lighting for and to Section it off in a way to make it immersive.

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: @Matthew - I’m not surprised we have large areas of agreement. We both try to be logical. If we start from different sets of assumptions we get different conclusions, but we’re willing to discuss things rationally. I try to keep my frustration in check, but sometimes it pokes its nose out.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Did you actually fill in values to get to $100 profit on 6 tickets - or was that just an example?

Mostly a ROM example, but using your data. $3.25/TC (lowering fees for forum trades) * 23 - $58 ( Origins ticket) = about $17 profit per ticket, times 6 (player plus 5 ghosts) = $100. Ish. Not counting 10 packs, or completion buttons and tokens.

Brad, aren't we at 21 max TC and not 23?

Oops. Fair catch. I was thinking 23 two years from now with the third Nugget.

So, per ticket: minus 6.50, plus 5 for a 10-pack (discounted price), plus 1.50 for completion tokens (I think that’s reasonable: some are worth $10, some worth $1 or less).

Making those adjustments, it’s still about $100 considering everything. Two years from now, closer to $150.

It’s meant to be a Rough Order of Magnitude anyway. We can quibble about a buck or two one way or the other, but that’s missing the point.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: @Matthew - I’m not surprised we have large areas of agreement. We both try to be logical. If we start from different sets of assumptions we get different conclusions, but we’re willing to discuss things rationally. I try to keep my frustration in check, but sometimes it pokes its nose out.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Did you actually fill in values to get to $100 profit on 6 tickets - or was that just an example?

Mostly a ROM example, but using your data. $3.25/TC (lowering fees for forum trades) * 23 - $58 ( Origins ticket) = about $17 profit per ticket, times 6 (player plus 5 ghosts) = $100. Ish. Not counting 10 packs, or completion buttons and tokens.

Brad, aren't we at 21 max TC and not 23?

Oops. Fair catch. I was thinking 23 two years from now with the third Nugget.

So, per ticket: minus 6.50, plus 5 for a 10-pack (discounted price), plus 1.50 for completion tokens (I think that’s reasonable: some are worth $10, some worth $1 or less).

Making those adjustments, it’s still about $100 considering everything. Two years from now, closer to $150.

It’s meant to be a Rough Order of Magnitude anyway. We can quibble about a buck or two one way or the other, but that’s missing the point.

Just cap ghosts at 14 TCs at non-GENCON conventions - problem solved.

Or, maybe cap TCs at all convention's for ghosts at ticket price divided by four, rounded down. Problem solved

Mike Steele wrote: Just cap ghosts at 14 TCs at non-GENCON conventions - problem solved.

Or, maybe cap TCs at all convention's for ghosts at ticket price divided by four, rounded down. Problem solved

I guess there are two different issues. Profiteering vs selling out of tickets.

Is ghosting bad at smaller cons where tickets don't sell out TODAY? Even if someone was 'farming a small con'. For the token economy probably, though extra hard to get completion tokens might be nice for those not able to attend. For Jeff and Co, no. Selling tickets is best. For new players? It doesn't affect them because there are plenty of tickets.

At Gen Con. Token economy probably less affect than at smaller cons. There are more tokens being pulled at Gen Con. For Jeff and Co, doesn't matter as long tickets are being sold. For new players? Yes tickets are a premium at Gen Con.

I don't have an answer just that the 'problem' isn't the same for each of the cons or for those that it affects.

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: @Matthew - I’m not surprised we have large areas of agreement. We both try to be logical. If we start from different sets of assumptions we get different conclusions, but we’re willing to discuss things rationally. I try to keep my frustration in check, but sometimes it pokes its nose out.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Did you actually fill in values to get to $100 profit on 6 tickets - or was that just an example?

Mostly a ROM example, but using your data. $3.25/TC (lowering fees for forum trades) * 23 - $58 ( Origins ticket) = about $17 profit per ticket, times 6 (player plus 5 ghosts) = $100. Ish. Not counting 10 packs, or completion buttons and tokens.

Brad, aren't we at 21 max TC and not 23?

Oops. Fair catch. I was thinking 23 two years from now with the third Nugget.

So, per ticket: minus 6.50, plus 5 for a 10-pack (discounted price), plus 1.50 for completion tokens (I think that’s reasonable: some are worth $10, some worth $1 or less).

Making those adjustments, it’s still about $100 considering everything. Two years from now, closer to $150.

It’s meant to be a Rough Order of Magnitude anyway. We can quibble about a buck or two one way or the other, but that’s missing the point.

Just cap ghosts at 14 TCs at non-GENCON conventions - problem solved.

Or, maybe cap TCs at all convention's for ghosts at ticket price divided by four, rounded down. Problem solved

Or, stop raising the max loot cap for everyone, so that farmers can’t scam a workaround. Problem REALLY solved

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: @Matthew - I’m not surprised we have large areas of agreement. We both try to be logical. If we start from different sets of assumptions we get different conclusions, but we’re willing to discuss things rationally. I try to keep my frustration in check, but sometimes it pokes its nose out.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Did you actually fill in values to get to $100 profit on 6 tickets - or was that just an example?

Mostly a ROM example, but using your data. $3.25/TC (lowering fees for forum trades) * 23 - $58 ( Origins ticket) = about $17 profit per ticket, times 6 (player plus 5 ghosts) = $100. Ish. Not counting 10 packs, or completion buttons and tokens.

Brad, aren't we at 21 max TC and not 23?

Oops. Fair catch. I was thinking 23 two years from now with the third Nugget.

So, per ticket: minus 6.50, plus 5 for a 10-pack (discounted price), plus 1.50 for completion tokens (I think that’s reasonable: some are worth $10, some worth $1 or less).

Making those adjustments, it’s still about $100 considering everything. Two years from now, closer to $150.

It’s meant to be a Rough Order of Magnitude anyway. We can quibble about a buck or two one way or the other, but that’s missing the point.

Just cap ghosts at 14 TCs at non-GENCON conventions - problem solved.

Or, maybe cap TCs at all convention's for ghosts at ticket price divided by four, rounded down. Problem solved

Or, stop raising the max loot cap for everyone, so that farmers can’t scam a workaround. Problem REALLY solved

It might solve that problem but create new ones, like all the Token purchases that might not happen because people are at the cap

Mike Steele wrote: It might solve that problem but create new ones, like all the Token purchases that might not happen because people are at the cap

That is just being silly. Did people buy tokens before there were TE's? Did they buy them in the years between HoP and RoR? Between RoR and CoGF? You can debate the impact they have on sales but don't start off with saying that token purchased might not happen or I cannot take anything you say as serious.

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: @Matthew - I’m not surprised we have large areas of agreement. We both try to be logical. If we start from different sets of assumptions we get different conclusions, but we’re willing to discuss things rationally. I try to keep my frustration in check, but sometimes it pokes its nose out.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Did you actually fill in values to get to $100 profit on 6 tickets - or was that just an example?

Mostly a ROM example, but using your data. $3.25/TC (lowering fees for forum trades) * 23 - $58 ( Origins ticket) = about $17 profit per ticket, times 6 (player plus 5 ghosts) = $100. Ish. Not counting 10 packs, or completion buttons and tokens.

Brad, aren't we at 21 max TC and not 23?

Oops. Fair catch. I was thinking 23 two years from now with the third Nugget.

So, per ticket: minus 6.50, plus 5 for a 10-pack (discounted price), plus 1.50 for completion tokens (I think that’s reasonable: some are worth $10, some worth $1 or less).

Making those adjustments, it’s still about $100 considering everything. Two years from now, closer to $150.

It’s meant to be a Rough Order of Magnitude anyway. We can quibble about a buck or two one way or the other, but that’s missing the point.

Just cap ghosts at 14 TCs at non-GENCON conventions - problem solved.

Or, maybe cap TCs at all convention's for ghosts at ticket price divided by four, rounded down. Problem solved

Or, stop raising the max loot cap for everyone, so that farmers can’t scam a workaround. Problem REALLY solved

It might solve that problem but create new ones, like all the Token purchases that might not happen because people are at the cap

What percentage of token buyers are there that have CoA, Ring of Riches, or Charm of Good Fortune? Would TD HQ even notice a drop in TE purchases if there was a reprint or functional reprint of Ring of Riches and Charm of Good Fortune? My guess is, by the time the Platnium Nugget is OOP, it won't even be noticeable that the oldest players aren't buying the TE reprints.

jedibcg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: It might solve that problem but create new ones, like all the Token purchases that might not happen because people are at the cap

That is just being silly. Did people buy tokens before there were TE's? Did they buy them in the years between HoP and RoR? Between RoR and CoGF? You can debate the impact they have on sales but don't start off with saying that token purchased might not happen or I cannot take anything you say as serious.

I think you're the one being silly now. Clearly I'm not saying token sales would go to zero, but they would almost certainly go down, which would impact the TD overall revenue.