TOPIC: The balance between treasure and stats

Mike Steele wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Krym wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Anything that allows different levels of treasure at different difficulty levels will definitely make it feel like pay to play or pay to win

Epic level is the only difficulty I think I'd be ok with seeing it, but it doesn't bother me at all that it doesn't occur.

More people are in the max TE camp then the geared to play at Epic camp.
I have a week nightmare build, I am not geared we’ll enough for epic.

I think allowing extra Treasure on Epic would be a big mistake. It would lead to a lot of people not outfitted to play Epic to try it, and that would lead to a lot of people having bad TD experiences.

+1

There are already groups that maybe shouldn't be running NM to get both completion tokens.

jedibcg wrote:
If you were to farm on normal why would you use legendary gear there is no advantage to have good or bad gear if you are just farming treasure. If you are truly farming you would buy out a slot and play with 4 other folks and 5 ghosts. You would all attempt to die as fast as possible and then just exist the dungeon to get your treasure as soon as possible to rinse and repeat as many times as you can. It is more cost effective to run with a group of farmers than to join randomly groups. Even if you play it out for the full 2 hours. You are getting more treasure per hours in the dungeon than grinding out running with randos. Even if you (the farmer) only get the treasure from 1 ghost it is still double the time saving.

It depends on your definition of farming and whether or not there is a treasure split agreed to.

Also, cost is a factor.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: +1

There are already groups that maybe shouldn't be running NM to get both completion tokens.

Shouldn't be? I will agree will a 'not geared for' but who are we to say who should or shouldn't run a certain difficulty?

jedibcg wrote: [quote="Wade Schwendemann"
There are already groups that maybe shouldn't be running NM to get both completion tokens.

Shouldn't be?

Based on gear level, not quite geared for it, was what I meant.

Endgame wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Anything that allows different levels of treasure at different difficulty levels will definitely make it feel like pay to play or pay to win

Isnt the reverse also true? Hopping on a normal run with all legendary gear to farm treasure isn't ideal for, say, 9 new people on a run.

Just pulling based on TEs for the tickets I pay for is ok, per the rules and isn’t a moral problem either. Farming tickets I didn’t pay for in the form of loaning out TEs and asking for something in return from the players borrowing I do have a issue with, but that’s not against the rules either.
The difference is TD somewhat encourages the mass Treasure pulls by selling TEs to boost your treasure pulls, but there intentions was never really farming out other players.
I purchased my TEs under the understanding that I could use them, and I have a lot of money sunk into them.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

jedibcg wrote: [quote="Wade Schwendemann"
There are already groups that maybe shouldn't be running NM to get both completion tokens.

Shouldn't be?

Based on gear level, not quite geared for it, was what I meant.[/quote]

Okay that I will gear with.

jedibcg wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

jedibcg wrote: [quote="Wade Schwendemann"
There are already groups that maybe shouldn't be running NM to get both completion tokens.

Shouldn't be?

Based on gear level, not quite geared for it, was what I meant.

Okay that I will gear with.[/quote]

I should definitely choose my words more carefully then.

Krym wrote: I am all for reprints (ex. Charm of Avarice), but I am ok with it not happening if I knew a future TE legendary could be made some day. If a new Legendary TE was released every couple of years this allows new players to reach those caps at some point rather than punishing them for not knowing about TD sooner. And with it occuring every couple of years this allows older players to feel like they're not cheated out of their hard work for some period of time and give them a chance to trade/sell. However, it's not reasonable to say no one can ever get an item like the Charm of Avarice again unless they pay over $1k.

I think its reasonable, COAs have never really cost less the 1k to make even the year they came out. Really they haven't gone up in price much at all. Jeff is also on record as saying there will be another legendary TE some time around 2025.

Mike Steele wrote:
I think allowing extra Treasure on Epic would be a big mistake. It would lead to a lot of people not outfitted to play Epic to try it, and that would lead to a lot of people having bad TD experiences.

100% agree. I go on a lot of pugs, and I see even more groups launch as a coach. Most people do not have a good handle on their groups relative power level. No negative comments on anyone in particular but it doesn't take much for some to over estimate, have a bad time, and blame the system. We used to see it all the time with dedicated nightmare runs.

Picc wrote:

Krym wrote: I am all for reprints (ex. Charm of Avarice), but I am ok with it not happening if I knew a future TE legendary could be made some day. If a new Legendary TE was released every couple of years this allows new players to reach those caps at some point rather than punishing them for not knowing about TD sooner. And with it occuring every couple of years this allows older players to feel like they're not cheated out of their hard work for some period of time and give them a chance to trade/sell. However, it's not reasonable to say no one can ever get an item like the Charm of Avarice again unless they pay over $1k.

I think its reasonable, COAs have never really cost less the 1k to make even the year they came out. Really they haven't gone up in price much at all. Jeff is also on record as saying there will be another legendary TE some time around 2025.

He actually said the TE Legendary would be 2026, but I won't be surprised if it's actually 2025 like you say, since the final TE token that's part of the recipe comes out in 2025.

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:
I think allowing extra Treasure on Epic would be a big mistake. It would lead to a lot of people not outfitted to play Epic to try it, and that would lead to a lot of people having bad TD experiences.

100% agree. I go on a lot of pugs, and I see even more groups launch as a coach. Most people do not have a good handle on their groups relative power level. No negative comments on anyone in particular but it doesn't take much for some to over estimate, have a bad time, and blame the system. We used to see it all the time with dedicated nightmare runs.

I remember those days and those are not fond memories of coaching those runs. I'm actively talking my current group out of nightmare. Those who only do the 1 run of each story are pushing so they get the completion tokens vs doing another run. That they'll likely loose XP as they may not survive escapes them..

Matt wrote:

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:
I think allowing extra Treasure on Epic would be a big mistake. It would lead to a lot of people not outfitted to play Epic to try it, and that would lead to a lot of people having bad TD experiences.

100% agree. I go on a lot of pugs, and I see even more groups launch as a coach. Most people do not have a good handle on their groups relative power level. No negative comments on anyone in particular but it doesn't take much for some to over estimate, have a bad time, and blame the system. We used to see it all the time with dedicated nightmare runs.

I remember those days and those are not fond memories of coaching those runs. I'm actively talking my current group out of nightmare. Those who only do the 1 run of each story are pushing so they get the completion tokens vs doing another run. That they'll likely loose XP as they may not survive escapes them..

We ran Nightmare for a few years when there was no Hardcore option and lost some players due to bad experiences (largely during the Smoak years). Everyone seemed happier when we all went to Hardcore. Last year I tossed the option of Hardcore or Nightmare to my group and they unanimously voted for Hardcore. I'm really glad we didn't have bonus treasure coins as another factor to consider.