TOPIC: The balance between treasure and stats

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’m personally very against having treasures pulls tied to difficulty level. All it takes is one person to say normal and we are all playing normal. I don’t think there should be a direct cap on pulls. If TD wants slow down Treasure pull inflation then they could do that by printing TEs in slots already in use with another TE, or possible reprints. I for one will only buy TEs up to the cap and stop buying at the cap. And while adding a TE every 2 years sounds like a lot, we are only talking about 5 over a 10 year period. If TD keeps the rate similar to today of +2 pulls per a TE, then we are talking about 29 to 31 pulls in 2029, I think the game can handle that just fine.

The point of pull cap tied to difficulty is exactly to avoid the problem you describe. All it takes is one person to call normal and is normal. In a difficulty based pull rate, you always presume normal and,say, 10 draws, unless you organize a more difficult run before the con.

You have it exactly backwards. Its a recipe for coaching room strife.

It seems inevitable that you'd have conflict between those wanting a lower difficulty level and those pushing for the highest difficulty level for highest token draws. There would be no way to make everyone happy in that situation.

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’m personally very against having treasures pulls tied to difficulty level. All it takes is one person to say normal and we are all playing normal. I don’t think there should be a direct cap on pulls. If TD wants slow down Treasure pull inflation then they could do that by printing TEs in slots already in use with another TE, or possible reprints. I for one will only buy TEs up to the cap and stop buying at the cap. And while adding a TE every 2 years sounds like a lot, we are only talking about 5 over a 10 year period. If TD keeps the rate similar to today of +2 pulls per a TE, then we are talking about 29 to 31 pulls in 2029, I think the game can handle that just fine.

The point of pull cap tied to difficulty is exactly to avoid the problem you describe. All it takes is one person to call normal and is normal. In a difficulty based pull rate, you always presume normal and,say, 10 draws, unless you organize a more difficult run before the con.

You have it exactly backwards. Its a recipe for coaching room strife.

It seems inevitable that you'd have conflict between those wanting a lower difficulty level and those pushing for the highest difficulty level for highest token draws. There would be no way to make everyone happy in that situation.

A party divided against itself is a recipe for failure.

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’m personally very against having treasures pulls tied to difficulty level. All it takes is one person to say normal and we are all playing normal. I don’t think there should be a direct cap on pulls. If TD wants slow down Treasure pull inflation then they could do that by printing TEs in slots already in use with another TE, or possible reprints. I for one will only buy TEs up to the cap and stop buying at the cap. And while adding a TE every 2 years sounds like a lot, we are only talking about 5 over a 10 year period. If TD keeps the rate similar to today of +2 pulls per a TE, then we are talking about 29 to 31 pulls in 2029, I think the game can handle that just fine.

The point of pull cap tied to difficulty is exactly to avoid the problem you describe. All it takes is one person to call normal and is normal. In a difficulty based pull rate, you always presume normal and,say, 10 draws, unless you organize a more difficult run before the con.

You have it exactly backwards. Its a recipe for coaching room strife.

It seems inevitable that you'd have conflict between those wanting a lower difficulty level and those pushing for the highest difficulty level for highest token draws. There would be no way to make everyone happy in that situation.

Of course this would be a problem if you decide difficulty in the coaching room.

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’m personally very against having treasures pulls tied to difficulty level. All it takes is one person to say normal and we are all playing normal. I don’t think there should be a direct cap on pulls. If TD wants slow down Treasure pull inflation then they could do that by printing TEs in slots already in use with another TE, or possible reprints. I for one will only buy TEs up to the cap and stop buying at the cap. And while adding a TE every 2 years sounds like a lot, we are only talking about 5 over a 10 year period. If TD keeps the rate similar to today of +2 pulls per a TE, then we are talking about 29 to 31 pulls in 2029, I think the game can handle that just fine.

The point of pull cap tied to difficulty is exactly to avoid the problem you describe. All it takes is one person to call normal and is normal. In a difficulty based pull rate, you always presume normal and,say, 10 draws, unless you organize a more difficult run before the con.

You have it exactly backwards. Its a recipe for coaching room strife.

It seems inevitable that you'd have conflict between those wanting a lower difficulty level and those pushing for the highest difficulty level for highest token draws. There would be no way to make everyone happy in that situation.

Of course this would be a problem if you decide difficulty in the coaching room.

With the way the ticket system works, there is no guarantee that you can coordinate ahead of time. Sure, it is always great to try to do that, but it relies on people to visit the forums (which not even all long-term veterans do).

I agree, it sounds like trouble. Especially if 1-2 people end up being pressured to do a harder run because everyone else wants to and then they end up dying and getting shorted on treasure tokens.

My personal thought is there does need to be a cap on TE otherwise TD will have to eventually be bringing a ton of tokens. And it would be disheartening to "new" players seeing others pull 40 tokens while they only get 3. You could explain the reason behind it, but I'd imagine it would make some feel like they didn't get their worth of $60 which could in turn lead to them not returning again.

I think the cap should be at 25 or 30. Make a new token slot on the sheet for crafted TE's only. This allows the committers to the game to place their Charm of Avarice or future legendary TE in a side slot and not hinder their other slots. But, to fully maximize the TE limit they would have to sacrifice other slots (Ioun Stones) to reach it, but at least they get a freebee slot for crafting a tough item.

I am all for reprints (ex. Charm of Avarice), but I am ok with it not happening if I knew a future TE legendary could be made some day. If a new Legendary TE was released every couple of years this allows new players to reach those caps at some point rather than punishing them for not knowing about TD sooner. And with it occuring every couple of years this allows older players to feel like they're not cheated out of their hard work for some period of time and give them a chance to trade/sell. However, it's not reasonable to say no one can ever get an item like the Charm of Avarice again unless they pay over $1k.

While I already agreed to idea of putting limits to caps based on dungeon difficulty is a bad idea....maybe it could only be allowed on EPIC runs. So on EPIC runs you get an extra 10 tokens over your TE if you live. Casual players will never really know about this happening and would probably understand if they did know. And I doubt the hardcore players going in on Epic level are going to go with random/casuals. This also allows the long-term hardcore players an extra benefit for being dedicated for so long and acquiring great items over time.

Anything that allows different levels of treasure at different difficulty levels will definitely make it feel like pay to play or pay to win

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Anything that allows different levels of treasure at different difficulty levels will definitely make it feel like pay to play or pay to win

Isnt the reverse also true? Hopping on a normal run with all legendary gear to farm treasure isn't ideal for, say, 9 new people on a run.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Anything that allows different levels of treasure at different difficulty levels will definitely make it feel like pay to play or pay to win

Epic level is the only difficulty I think I'd be ok with seeing it, but it doesn't bother me at all that it doesn't occur.

Krym wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Anything that allows different levels of treasure at different difficulty levels will definitely make it feel like pay to play or pay to win

Epic level is the only difficulty I think I'd be ok with seeing it, but it doesn't bother me at all that it doesn't occur.

More people are in the max TE camp then the geared to play at Epic camp.
I have a week nightmare build, I am not geared we’ll enough for epic.

Endgame wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Anything that allows different levels of treasure at different difficulty levels will definitely make it feel like pay to play or pay to win

Isnt the reverse also true? Hopping on a normal run with all legendary gear to farm treasure isn't ideal for, say, 9 new people on a run.

If you were to farm on normal why would you use legendary gear there is no advantage to have good or bad gear if you are just farming treasure. If you are truly farming you would buy out a slot and play with 4 other folks and 5 ghosts. You would all attempt to die as fast as possible and then just exist the dungeon to get your treasure as soon as possible to rinse and repeat as many times as you can. It is more cost effective to run with a group of farmers than to join randomly groups. Even if you play it out for the full 2 hours. You are getting more treasure per hours in the dungeon than grinding out running with randos. Even if you (the farmer) only get the treasure from 1 ghost it is still double the time saving.

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Krym wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Anything that allows different levels of treasure at different difficulty levels will definitely make it feel like pay to play or pay to win

Epic level is the only difficulty I think I'd be ok with seeing it, but it doesn't bother me at all that it doesn't occur.

More people are in the max TE camp then the geared to play at Epic camp.
I have a week nightmare build, I am not geared we’ll enough for epic.

I think allowing extra Treasure on Epic would be a big mistake. It would lead to a lot of people not outfitted to play Epic to try it, and that would lead to a lot of people having bad TD experiences.

Endgame wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Anything that allows different levels of treasure at different difficulty levels will definitely make it feel like pay to play or pay to win

Isnt the reverse also true? Hopping on a normal run with all legendary gear to farm treasure isn't ideal for, say, 9 new people on a run.

Well, it depends on the vet.
The newbies get 7 (or more) more treasure than they otherwise would have.
Hopefully the vet doesnt spoil the puzzles or kill everything in the first round of combat.
Hopefully the vet can be an ambassador for the game, answering questions along the way.

I can see both sides. I know where I stand, but that doesn't mean I don't see the other side.