TOPIC: Seller Cautionary Tale

Fiddy wrote: So, let me start out by saying that I have every faith that Mike did everything right. And it totally sucks that he is having to deal with this.

However, reading through the story, it does seem plausible that some nefarious person signed for the package and stole it. It feels odd that the signature was the destination address, rather than an actual person's signature. To me, there is at least the possibility that the buyer is not out to screw Mike, but rather someone that actually suffered a loss, and whose only actual recourse is to open the eBay cases. If USPS provided an option to require presenting a form of identity when someone signs for packages, we could at least eliminate that case.

I probably was unclear in my description. There was both a signature and an address on the proof of delivery. If it was delivered to a different house, I don't think the person would have known what the correct address would be to write it in, or even why they would do that for an unknown package. The signature wasn't clear, but that's what I'd expect if the intent was to deceive.

Kirk Bauer wrote: Not to toot my own horn too much, but the fact that eBay is so sub-optimal for the token market is the reason I set up the consignment system on my site. I probably have a higher number of token-buyers on my site than eBay does, and the fees are lower. I know it isn't auction format, but if you price your tokens low enough they'll sell quickly. And it keeps more of the money in the community (my 10% cut goes to buy more tokens; eBay's 10% cut doesn't).

Kirk, I'm sure your consignment program is awesome, but I don't think it would prevent something like this. If I sold a token via your program, the buyer could still file a claim with their credit card company or bank that they didn't receive the tokens, couldn't they?

Mike Steele wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: Not to toot my own horn too much, but the fact that eBay is so sub-optimal for the token market is the reason I set up the consignment system on my site. I probably have a higher number of token-buyers on my site than eBay does, and the fees are lower. I know it isn't auction format, but if you price your tokens low enough they'll sell quickly. And it keeps more of the money in the community (my 10% cut goes to buy more tokens; eBay's 10% cut doesn't).

Kirk, I'm sure your consignment program is awesome, but I don't think it would prevent something like this. If I sold a token via your program, the buyer could still file a claim with their credit card company or bank that they didn't receive the tokens, couldn't they?

I think I would fight harder than eBay/PayPal on my sellers' behalf. But I guess that could still end up being ineffective. And I'd be doing the fighting on behalf of my sellers.

travis wrote: somewhat related question:

does anyone know if this was for a sale through the forums, and the buyer paid via PayPal Friends & Family, would they still be able to dispute that transaction? either through PayPal or their financial institution?

They can still pay by credit card if they cover the fees in that case, so they could still dispute it with their credit card at least. I don't know how that would pan out. I do worry about this, especially if PayPal finds out you were doing something they wouldn't consider Friends & Family appropriate.

If they don't pay by credit card, I'm not sure if they'd be able to dispute it with PayPal or not.

What about a bank transfer?

travis wrote: somewhat related question:

does anyone know if this was for a sale through the forums, and the buyer paid via PayPal Friends & Family, would they still be able to dispute that transaction? either through PayPal or their financial institution?

You can't dispute it, only thing you can do if funds didn't make it to their account for some reason, had this happen once.

Mike Steele wrote:

Rebeg wrote: I don't sell on Ebay because of issues like this.

But here is a question. If you block him, can you still see what he's putting up for sale?

This guy is running a used book & collectable store on Ebay. Would hate for him to put them up for sale and you not be able to see it.

Also I take it your handle on Ebay is "kidsandkeepsakes"

I'm new-moon-festival on EBay, it's been my business name with a friend since I did Comic Book Conventions probably 35 years ago or more.

I'm not sure if I can still see and/or bid on his items after I've blocked him, but to be honest I have no desire to do so anyway. I understand others may feel differently. Let me know though if you see any of the tokens I sold him up for sale on his site.

l

Reason I ask is reading his feedback page. I saw this last night on his page, as well as on kidsandkeepsakes page. So it was a sale they did together. Interestingly enough, that posting is now removed this morning from chalemar_designs page but remains on the other seller's page. Why he deleted it I don't know.

Everything done right, and the extra tokens were a welcome surprise. c***r ( 508)

Also I see the feedback message you left. Ironic now considering how he's treating you.

Wonderful Ebay member, A+++, I hope we have many more transactions!
Member id
new-moon-festival (
Feedback Score Of
2066)

Also, I see on your page, he is listed as someone who is following your sales.

James J Krot wrote:

travis wrote: somewhat related question:

does anyone know if this was for a sale through the forums, and the buyer paid via PayPal Friends & Family, would they still be able to dispute that transaction? either through PayPal or their financial institution?

You can't dispute it, only thing you can do if funds didn't make it to their account for some reason, had this happen once.

You can't dispute via PayPal, I'm not so sure you can't dispute via your financial institution.

travis wrote: somewhat related question:

does anyone know if this was for a sale through the forums, and the buyer paid via PayPal Friends & Family, would they still be able to dispute that transaction? either through PayPal or their financial institution?

F&F implies it’s a gift, so there is no disputing it. Bringing in PayPal will at best get you laughed at, and at worse they could file fraud charges against YOU for cheating them out of their fee. Never heard of them doing that though.

That’s why using it for people you don’t know is risky. And, why I usually tell new folks that they owe me $X plus $y to cover the fees. If they don’t want to pay the fees that’s on them, because if I decided to screw them over there’s nothing they could do about it, other than out me on the forum. But that’s not how we roll here, in my experience.

Mike Steele wrote:
Edit - You don't need the email address to block as an EBay bidder, just the handle. I'm not comfortable posting his email address in the open thread, but I'm OK with posting his EBay handle. It is chalemar_designs .
happened selling directly rather than through EBay, I'd be even more at risk.

He could change his handle on Ebay, not sure the affect it would have if you blocked the handle and not the email address. I do remember a decade or so ago if you blocked the handle and they changed their handle they could still purchase from you. I hope they changed that!

Kirk Bauer wrote: Lazlo, I would assume that they can still reverse a transaction to your checking account, even if you removed the link. In other words they can undo your withdrawal.

Now here is the smart move if somebody was worried enough about this. Set up a checking account with no overdraft protection and link it to PayPal. Withdraw your funds into that account, and then transfer those funds into another account. Now if PayPal tries to pull the money back out, it won't be there. You might get hit with a bounce fee, but you'd still have the cash.

I don't know what PayPal would do in that case. If they found in the buyer's favor, I assume they'd sue you and/or shut down your account if you didn't pony up the funds. But I'm not sure what they would do when they didn't have the cash and the investigation was still pending.

PayPal would put a negative value as your balance, put a hold on your account (and eventually cancel it-I want to say it's after 30 days-I had something similar to this happen when I used to sell on Ebay, but it's been almost a decade so specifics are a little fuzzy).

From what I've read from others, if they reach the 30? day cancellation point, they'll send you bills for another couple of months and then turn your account over to a collection agency (at which point it shows on your credit report).