TOPIC: Legendary Armor Set Bonus

Legendary are gold and trade token sinks. I don't think the Legendary Redoubt Set needs a bonus for this reason. If you don't want the extra AC don't make the Legendary tokens. Make other Legendary or sell your extra's. IMO. I likely will eventually make the Helm and Shield and Mail (pulled the Plate last year), but that is because I will likely have the extra stuff at some point and will want to sink it into a legendary.

Something seems wrong about the "it's designed to be underwhelming, build something else!" argument. I would be exited to save and build a lendaery armor set with class bonuses. Today, no thanks. Never will.

Some interesting thoughts here.

1) Yes, the set-bonus should be something that is applied to the party card so it's not yet another thing for DM's to remember.

2) I see this more as a reward for long-time players rather than a pay-to-play because the chance that someone comes in and buys (3) legionaries outright is the rare exception and the shear cost would make it a rare situation. (Roughly ~$3,200 for three tokens.)

Here are some ideas that don't contradict (1) and augment the standard Redoubt Bonus:

A ) +1 Level & +1 Saves & Immunity to Hold, Slow, and other hindrances (Also the standard +2 to Strength & +5 to max HP)

B ) +1 Level & +3 to Strength & +8 to max HP

C ) +1 Level & Immunity to Hold, Slow, and other hindrances & Cannot Be Surprised (Also the standard +2 to Strength & +5 to max HP)

I'm a fan of the +1 level in any case because it frees up a ring/charm slot which is worthy reward for securing these three powerful items and is not out of the ordinary as it is derived from other set-bonuses.

SoulKage wrote: Something seems wrong about the "it's designed to be underwhelming, build something else!" argument. I would be exited to save and build a lendaery armor set with class bonuses. Today, no thanks. Never will.

I don't think anyone said it is designed to be underwhelming. I actually think the Redoubt Set Bonus is a fine bonus. But to each his own.

SoulKage wrote: Something seems wrong about the "it's designed to be underwhelming, build something else!" argument. I would be exited to save and build a lendaery armor set with class bonuses. Today, no thanks. Never will.

I'm not sure I buy the argument that this set is somehow underwhelming, it seems pretty awesome to me. It is by far the best set of Armor in True Dungeon. There were a lot of people that were actively looking to have a Legendary Helm in order to complete the Legendary set, and seemed really happy to get it. What I was saying was - if a higher Armor Class isn't important to someone, then perhaps a Legendary Armor set isn't for them.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: That's completely reasonable as an argument, though I would disagree.

I think that we want people to be making all the legendary items, and perhaps we should reward them if they do so.

I could see the bonus being something specific to each class, or something generic, like an additional +2 to strength and +2 saves.

I love the idea of class specific ones though.

Do we really want people to make all the Legendary Items? I'd think that we'd only want them to be making the ones that really appeal to them, and that they have the resources to make. I'd think it is a pretty small subset of players that are making all the Legendary items.

As far as rewarding people for making Legendary items - I think the reward is that they own Legendary Items.

Mike Steele wrote: I guess I'd recommend that if extra AC isn't important to someone, maybe they should focus on getting a different Legendary instead of the Redoubt Armor set, rather than make the Legendary Armor set give you the best AC possible AND something else.

I currently have no legendaries other than the Charm of Avarice. Which wasn't yet a legendary when I made it.

I'm very unlikely to make any of the legendary armor. The cost/benefit ratio isn't favorable.

I am waiting to see what the recipe on Thors Hammer looks like. Otherwise I'm debating between Pharacus's Cloak (saves are universal), Surtr's Girdle (strength boosts many classes), or Welfors Sword (more expensive but more bang for the buck for Fighters). The older Legendaries have a lower cost in UR tokens and so are a better buy as a first legendary

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: That's completely reasonable as an argument, though I would disagree.

I think that we want people to be making all the legendary items, and perhaps we should reward them if they do so.

I could see the bonus being something specific to each class, or something generic, like an additional +2 to strength and +2 saves.

I love the idea of class specific ones though.

Do we really want people to make all the Legendary Items? I'd think that we'd only want them to be making the ones that really appeal to them, and that they have the resources to make. I'd think it is a pretty small subset of players that are making all the Legendary items.

As far as rewarding people for making Legendary items - I think the reward is that they own Legendary Items.

I might have been unclear. I don't necessarily want one individual making all the legendary items (though they certainly could if they wished). What I meant was that each legendary item should have enough appeal that it would be made in relatively equal numbers, or be desired.

If I were starting from nothing, I would want a Charm of Avarice first, then depending on my preferred class, likely that class's main hand weapon. Perhaps the Bow, but you get the idea.

Then likely either the girdle or cloak, then the other

Then if I'm a spell caster, the focus ring. If I'm a melee class, things get a little murky.

The above order doesn't necessarily matter of course, but I think that things like the armor set have far less appeal than any of the ones I mentioned above. I'm not sure a set bonus would change that at all, since you would need to make 3 to get it, but it couldn't hurt.

I love the idea of +1 level as a potential benefit, along with something else too.

I have no idea if I will ever get to the point where this would matter anyhow, but it would be nice to think about when daydreaming.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: That's completely reasonable as an argument, though I would disagree.

I think that we want people to be making all the legendary items, and perhaps we should reward them if they do so.

I could see the bonus being something specific to each class, or something generic, like an additional +2 to strength and +2 saves.

I love the idea of class specific ones though.

Do we really want people to make all the Legendary Items? I'd think that we'd only want them to be making the ones that really appeal to them, and that they have the resources to make. I'd think it is a pretty small subset of players that are making all the Legendary items.

As far as rewarding people for making Legendary items - I think the reward is that they own Legendary Items.

I might have been unclear. I don't necessarily want one individual making all the legendary items (though they certainly could if they wished). What I meant was that each legendary item should have enough appeal that it would be made in relatively equal numbers, or be desired.

If I were starting from nothing, I would want a Charm of Avarice first, then depending on my preferred class, likely that class's main hand weapon. Perhaps the Bow, but you get the idea.

Then likely either the girdle or cloak, then the other

Then if I'm a spell caster, the focus ring. If I'm a melee class, things get a little murky.

The above order doesn't necessarily matter of course, but I think that things like the armor set have far less appeal than any of the ones I mentioned above. I'm not sure a set bonus would change that at all, since you would need to make 3 to get it, but it couldn't hurt.

I love the idea of +1 level as a potential benefit, along with something else too.

I have no idea if I will ever get to the point where this would matter anyhow, but it would be nice to think about when daydreaming.

Okay, that makes more sense. I do think this item has a lot of appeal though, there were a lot of people asking for it, and a lot of people really happy it was being offered.

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: That's completely reasonable as an argument, though I would disagree.

I think that we want people to be making all the legendary items, and perhaps we should reward them if they do so.

I could see the bonus being something specific to each class, or something generic, like an additional +2 to strength and +2 saves.

I love the idea of class specific ones though.

Do we really want people to make all the Legendary Items? I'd think that we'd only want them to be making the ones that really appeal to them, and that they have the resources to make. I'd think it is a pretty small subset of players that are making all the Legendary items.

As far as rewarding people for making Legendary items - I think the reward is that they own Legendary Items.

I might have been unclear. I don't necessarily want one individual making all the legendary items (though they certainly could if they wished). What I meant was that each legendary item should have enough appeal that it would be made in relatively equal numbers, or be desired.

If I were starting from nothing, I would want a Charm of Avarice first, then depending on my preferred class, likely that class's main hand weapon. Perhaps the Bow, but you get the idea.

Then likely either the girdle or cloak, then the other

Then if I'm a spell caster, the focus ring. If I'm a melee class, things get a little murky.

The above order doesn't necessarily matter of course, but I think that things like the armor set have far less appeal than any of the ones I mentioned above. I'm not sure a set bonus would change that at all, since you would need to make 3 to get it, but it couldn't hurt.

I love the idea of +1 level as a potential benefit, along with something else too.

I have no idea if I will ever get to the point where this would matter anyhow, but it would be nice to think about when daydreaming.

Okay, that makes more sense. I do think this item has a lot of appeal though, there were a lot of people asking for it, and a lot of people really happy it was being offered.

Honestly I think most people were looking for the relic to get rid of the -2 to will saves. I doubt very many will make the legendary helm. Probably as many as the plate, or less, and I would imagine more than the shield.

Maybe something called hero of legend.

If your character equips 3 Legendary Items, the entire party gets a +2 to hit for all combat situations. This is not stackable, so if 5 characters have 3 Legendary items it is still only a max +2 from this effect.

This falls in line with Legend. Gandolf and Aragorn were inspiring with their legendary prowess. Thor inspires those who take the field with him depending on the Mythos.

mike coon wrote: Maybe something called hero of legend.

If your character equips 3 Legendary Items, the entire party gets a +2 to hit for all combat situations. This is not stackable, so if 5 characters have 3 Legendary items it is still only a max +2 from this effect.

This falls in line with Legend. Gandolf and Aragorn were inspiring with their legendary prowess. Thor inspires those who take the field with him depending on the Mythos.

Not a bad idea, however, this does not excite me to craft the armors. Other legendaries would be much better choices if you were wanting to get this group bonus.