TOPIC: Should Ghosting be allowed at GENCON?

Just my two copper concerning Ghosting. (I think I am echoing some of Raven's earlier comments but am too lazy to go back and find the post.)

Ghosting should not be outright banned because of PUGs. It is nearly impossible without ghosting to ensure the difficulty of a run without control of all the tickets. The only Nightmare runs I have ever participated in have been because of Ghosting. In fact my favorite run has been me a four of my best friends succeeding at a 5 person Nightmare run.

Ghosting should not be banned because 10 people is a lot. Now I understand the reasons why we have 10 people in a party and I will not lobby for a reduction. At least not as long as I have a reasonable solution. I have and will continue to buy some extra tickets to keep the runs I participate in closer to 8 people. I think it is the better experience.

I would be OK with rules that reduce Ghosting as a method of Farming. In interest of full disclosure, I have ghosted plenty of tickets and never refused any treasure tokens they have generated. But I can also honestly say I have never bought extra tickets for the sole purpose of gathering extra treasure. I do not think I would change my ticket purchases if Treasure tokens were removed entirely from Ghost tickets.

How about this?
Ghosted tickets gain no treasure and instead are given a consumable Dungeon Ghost Token.

Dungeon Ghost (Consumable): Turn in to negate a single instance on trap or push damage.

Or some such. The ideas is to give a minor advantage while removing the treasure element from Ghosting.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: So, maybe what is needed is an Epic dungeon level?

I think all that's needed as scaling up Nightmare.

The question is do you need a difficulty level that is challenging to people who have great rare and UR builds. I don't think you do. I think almost everyone who has a great rare and UR build also splashes it with relics, eldritch healing, etc..

So:

Normal = normal
Hardcore = a good challenge for strong red builds, maybe a UR or too
Nightmare = a good challenge for relic/eldritch level builds

The issue I see it is that right now Nightmare is a good challenge for UR level builds, and I don't think there is a big constituency of players at that gearing level. It's too hard for rare builds not matter how great, and not a challenge at relic+ with eldrich healing levels.

I disagree with the bits which I bolded (emphasis mine, yo).

I think the forumites we see here are "in for a penny, in for a pound" kinda people. If they're buying URs, they're also likely to try making relics & getting those amazing healing synergies going.

But in Coaching, I've seen many, many groups which have solid UR builds. Like, 2-4 URs per player. Definitely all UR weapons, some UR armour, and a few specials like the Lenses of Divine Sight, MEC, Widseth's, etc.

That's the sort of group which Nightmare is aimed at - players who have been around for a few years, invested in a few PYPs, and want to challenge themselves, and/or get the Nightmare-level XP&loot.

I'd be very leery of adjusting Nightmare to fit Relic level builds. It would create a huge gap between the UR-investment level, and the level on monetary commitment needed for Nightmare... and a lot of players who invest at the UR level would say "screw it, I can't keep up" and stop trying (read: stop giving TD money for PYP orders)

Mike Steele wrote: Out of curiosity, how many tickets do you think are bought by people doing Ghosting, out of the 8,000 that will be sold at GENCON?

Interesting question, but not sure the answer matters much.

If "lots," then discouraging ghost will probably result in many more unsold tickets, and thus lots of lost revenue. (Rising ticket prices already cuts into demand.)

If it's "few," then restricting ghost treasure is penalizing "legitimate ghosts," whatever that means, to solve a non-problem. That would aggravate innocent people for little benefit - like everybody has to risk athletes foot at the airport because one idiot put a bomb in his shoe.

Either way, I see very little upside and lots of potential downside to changing the current ghost rules to discriminate against certain ticket buyers, such as the corporeally-challenged.

Davoruk wrote: How about this?
Ghosted tickets gain no treasure and instead are given a consumable Dungeon Ghost Token.

Dungeon Ghost (Consumable): Turn in to negate a single instance on trap or push damage.

Or some such. The ideas is to give a minor advantage while removing the treasure element from Ghosting.

Huh. interesting idea.

I am worried, though, that this would inadvertently create a situation where people deliberately farmed for that particular ghost token. Maybe not dozens of ghosting runs (it'd be an expensive ~$50 consumable) but I know people who'd deliberately ghost just to get one (or two, or three)

Raven wrote:

Davoruk wrote: How about this?
Ghosted tickets gain no treasure and instead are given a consumable Dungeon Ghost Token.

Dungeon Ghost (Consumable): Turn in to negate a single instance on trap or push damage.

Or some such. The ideas is to give a minor advantage while removing the treasure element from Ghosting.

Huh. interesting idea.

I am worried, though, that this would inadvertently create a situation where people deliberately farmed for that particular ghost token. Maybe not dozens of ghosting runs (it'd be an expensive ~$50 consumable) but I know people who'd deliberately ghost just to get one (or two, or three)

Ghosting for treasure should be banned. The solution is simple, sell treasure tokens.

Anything that reduces the number of people experiencing TD every year should be banned. I, for one, don’t volunteer to watch ghosts float through the dungeon and collect loot.

Also, the people that don’t want to game with unknown people, why are you even at Gencon?

Cavor wrote: Ghosting for treasure should be banned. The solution is simple, sell treasure tokens.

Anything that reduces the number of people experiencing TD every year should be banned. I, for one, don’t volunteer to watch ghosts float through the dungeon and collect loot.

Also, the people that don’t want to game with unknown people, why are you even at Gencon?

It's unclear that ghosting reduces the number of people experiencing TD.

Cavor wrote: Also, the people that don’t want to game with unknown people, why are you even at Gencon?

Because I want to play with my friends. Why are you being so.....antagonistic on the forums?

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Cavor wrote: Ghosting for treasure should be banned. The solution is simple, sell treasure tokens.

Anything that reduces the number of people experiencing TD every year should be banned. I, for one, don’t volunteer to watch ghosts float through the dungeon and collect loot.

Also, the people that don’t want to game with unknown people, why are you even at Gencon?

It's unclear that ghosting reduces the number of people experiencing TD.

Then filling groups from the wait list should not be a problem?

jedibcg wrote:

Cavor wrote: Also, the people that don’t want to game with unknown people, why are you even at Gencon?

Because I want to play with my friends. Why are you being so.....antagonistic on the forums?

In what sense is that antagonistic? Excluding people from a gaming event is against the spirit of Gencon, TD is not special.

These are the ranges that I tend to think of for the difficulty levels (at least what I think they should be):

Normal = Starting 10 Pack up to strong Red with a couple of URs
Hardcore = Mix of Red and UR's to Strong UR with a few Relics
Nightmare = Mostly Relics with some Eldritch & Legendary to Best in Slot across the board

Cavor wrote: Ghosting for treasure should be banned. The solution is simple, sell treasure tokens.

Anything that reduces the number of people experiencing TD every year should be banned. I, for one, don’t volunteer to watch ghosts float through the dungeon and collect loot.

Also, the people that don’t want to game with unknown people, why are you even at Gencon?

1. For the events at GenCon

2. To spend time with people one does know (and like). In some cases, it might be the only time of the year that you see them.

I think it's perfectly fine if you don't want to game with unknown people.

Just like it's okay if you don't want to room with (share a hotel room with) unknown people.

Just like it's okay if you don't want to eat dinner with unknown people.

I'll also point out that some people have anxiety or social issues that can get exacerbated by exposure to too many unknown people.