TOPIC: True Dungeon Character Generators (App)

Endgame wrote:

Cranston wrote:

Jamie Campbell wrote: I am on a ranger build. I have a Rod of the meek on Melee...it started as 3 12...and the app made it 3 10. I think the implementation doesn't read the same as the tokenDB. Particularly, the db says

"Q2) If my melee To Hit or Damage bonus exceeds 10, may I equip this item and reduce those bonuses to 10?
A2) No. This token does not change how party card melee To Hit and Damage values are calculated or recorded. You may never equip this item if the resulting melee To Hit or Damage values on the party card would exceed 10."

So I think the implementation is assuming to just drop the higher stat to 10 when in fact, it should prohibit the meek from being equiped if the melee stats exceed 10.

The problem is that tokens can say anything, but code HATES infinite loops, which is what the implementation as described would create. If you have +8 To hit. The Rod of the Meek is legal, until it is added., then it is illegal. Ok, so prohibit at +6 or greater, except you can equip it at +3, and then add other tokens taking you above +10, when it becomes illegal, except when subtracted, you are back to +8, which is legal again.

Now consider that during the calculation phase, it would require that the check be done in a certain token order, because To Hit needs to be calculated for all the other tokens before adding in the RoTM. For items that require specific Dex or Str, I can do the base stats first, before determining if the item is legal, but in this case the item adds to the same stat that limits it. Ever try doing a circular formula in a spreadsheet?

There are just too many states for this to function cleanly, so I took the simpler approach of limiting the total to 10. I did inform TPTB of how this was going to work.

This is fantastic justification for changing the token DB entry to trim the hit and damage to 10.

Agree.

Endgame wrote: This is fantastic justification for changing the token DB entry to trim the hit and damage to 10.

Here's why I feel that dream needs to be crushed.

The token is called "+4 Rod of the Meek" not "Rod of the Just Put a Cap On It". It's literally the only +4 weapon at the Ultra Rare level. Power like that at the UR level needs to have a significant drawback. Some tokens have benefits beyond a To Hit or Damage bonus. By simply dialing back a character's To Hit/Damage bonuses to 10, the players gets to keep any other bonus(es) without penalty. That is not in the spirit of this token and can curtail this token's drawback.

Does the cap complicate programming? Clearly it does. The workaround is necessary for VTD, but will not be in effect for in-person TD because coach brains don't stop functioning when presented with an infinite loop.

Druegar wrote:

Endgame wrote: The token is called "+4 Rod of the Meek" not "Rod of the Just Put a Cap On It". It's literally the only +4 weapon at the Ultra Rare level. Power like that at the UR level needs to have a significant drawback. Some tokens have benefits beyond a To Hit or Damage bonus. By simply dialing back a character's To Hit/Damage bonuses to 10, the players gets to keep any other bonus(es) without penalty. That is not in the spirit of this token and can curtail this token's drawback.

You guys make the rules, so dream is crushed. That said, this seems to be a stretch.

For example, I can make a build that uses ring of the drake and get returning shurikens as long as the +damage bonus is 10 or less. Your concern is that I could find + damage or +hit items that each confer a benefit beyond +hit and +damage, such that I end up > +10 hit and +10 damage and a string of additional bonuses and just have the hit and damage trimmed. I'll legit look into the possibilities there, but outside of damage types I don't think I could name enough tokens that have a secondary effect to get to +10 damage, let alone above it.

Also note, you can make a pretty intense build and still fit within the requirements for Rod of the Meek
tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/d417d5e3-fcdd-41fa-8cce-ebccca8a6302

OK, maybe time for me to be schooled...but let me explain...how I see it

So the +4 is interesting for me as ranger because I popped the Ranged Ranger...In addition, a ROGUE can use the weapon...so it can be on the offhand

What I do think is that the just trim the end...it sounds like the complexity of a final exam of the build is necessary...namely, a "validate character build" so that it goes thru "rules" to assure that nothing in the calculation routine negated any of the tokens. Is the meek the only token that has this recursion issue? thors/dex20? second figurine/char16?


To me that is what causes the Meek to drop? basically, we know the +4 to AC...which means we need to block it on more than 6 ToHit or more than 10 on the damage? Is that the right thing to think?

+1 Dwarven Sling of Smarts is showing as a 1 handed weapon when it’s really a 2H weapon.

Should Strength 9 (CotSipquick and Bo Frail Agility) subtract 1 from the Nightshade Dagger ranged damage? Inconsistency between app (does not) and web-site (does).

Lequinian wrote: Should Strength 9 (CotSipquick and Bo Frail Agility) subtract 1 from the Nightshade Dagger ranged damage? Inconsistency between app (does not) and web-site (does).

I would need the rest of the build to decide. Is the final Ranged Damage 0 and you think it should be -1? If so, it is limited to a minimum of 0.

Cranston wrote:

Lequinian wrote: Should Strength 9 (CotSipquick and Bo Frail Agility) subtract 1 from the Nightshade Dagger ranged damage? Inconsistency between app (does not) and web-site (does).

I would need the rest of the build to decide. Is the final Ranged Damage 0 and you think it should be -1? If so, it is limited to a minimum of 0.

I'd prefer that the app is right and the web-site is wrong, but...

Class: Rogue

STR: 9
DEX: 22
CON: 11
INT: 11
WIS: 11
CHA: 15

Melee:
Hit: 1 Damage: -1 AC: 16

Range:
Hit: 8 Damage: 1 AC: 16 Missle AC: 0

Ranged Mainhand: Nightshade’s +2 Throwing Dagger
Wrist: Bracelets of Frail Agility
Charm: Charm of the Sipquick
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Banshee Prism

It appears the +1 Dwarven Hurled Insult is not getting the damage bonus from Str for being a thrown ranged weapon. Tried it with a couple different classes.

Version 8.3.0 has been released for IOS and Android with the following changes

- Pregenerated Characters will generate with the 2021 token set
- Corrected a problem with 4th level clerics in VTD (IOS issue)
- Area of Effect spells now display correctly in Room 1 (Android issue)
- Several weapons that should be 2 handed are now 2 handed
- Several thrown weapons now add the strength modifier correctly

Enjoy!

Is this the version we should be using for V4c next weekend?

Dave wrote: Is this the version we should be using for V4c next weekend?

Yes, this is fully updated for V4c.