TOPIC: Token Draw Happiness

Mike Steele wrote:

balthasar wrote: Well, assuming there are 8000 or so players, what would you assume the average treasure draw is going to be? Just going to use 8 per player, so that would be 64K tokens in the treasure boxes. One percent of that would be 640 tokens that would be comprised of URs and better stuff. Now that 8 average is just number I am assuming, which I honestly think it should be higher.

I know I beat the average with my pulls, which most likely means someone else had less luck. If the boxes remain the same, I am sure that will even out over the years.

I'd guess the average token draw is less than 8. 16 (or 17 with 6th Level) is the max (without artifacts), and I'd guess that the vast majority of players are just drawing their basic 3 tokens. I'd think that would pull the average draw below the 8 level.

That 8 per player figure is accurate if the party consists of nine new players and one very greedy token-aholic, like a situation I observed while coaching one of my runs.

The token-aholic had 10 Charms of Avarice to provide to the party.
Others with such extra CoA are generous and usually provide them to their party for free and are happy with the +2 treasure pulls that this allows them.

This one token-aholic made a deal with his party to let them borrow his 9 extra CoA in exchange for HALF of all of their treasure pulls. So not only did he get his extra +2 treasure pulls, but his party donated to the rich man another +72 treasure pulls. So, yes, each of the players in this party averaged 8 treasure pulls instead of 3.

I almost said something to the new players. Maybe I should have.

Kerrik wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

balthasar wrote: Well, assuming there are 8000 or so players, what would you assume the average treasure draw is going to be? Just going to use 8 per player, so that would be 64K tokens in the treasure boxes. One percent of that would be 640 tokens that would be comprised of URs and better stuff. Now that 8 average is just number I am assuming, which I honestly think it should be higher.

I know I beat the average with my pulls, which most likely means someone else had less luck. If the boxes remain the same, I am sure that will even out over the years.

I'd guess the average token draw is less than 8. 16 (or 17 with 6th Level) is the max (without artifacts), and I'd guess that the vast majority of players are just drawing their basic 3 tokens. I'd think that would pull the average draw below the 8 level.

That 8 per player figure is accurate if the party consists of nine new players and one very greedy token-aholic, like a situation I observed while coaching one of my runs.

The token-aholic had 10 Charms of Avarice to provide to the party.
Others with such extra CoA are generous and usually provide them to their party for free and are happy with the +2 treasure pulls that this allows them.

This one token-aholic made a deal with his party to let them borrow his 9 extra CoA in exchange for HALF of all of their treasure pulls. So not only did he get his extra +2 treasure pulls, but his party donated to the rich man another +72 treasure pulls. So, yes, each of the players in this party averaged 8 treasure pulls instead of 3.

I almost said something to the new players. Maybe I should have.

Why would you have? The new players got 5 additional pulls for no effort on their part - that's more than most of the URTEs alone. I've seen just as many veterans loan out their gear for nothing as I have those that worked out similar types of deals, and in both cases the new players were happy. Not once have I heard anyone complain that they felt they were getting a raw deal.

Joshua Baessler wrote:

Kerrik wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

balthasar wrote: Well, assuming there are 8000 or so players, what would you assume the average treasure draw is going to be? Just going to use 8 per player, so that would be 64K tokens in the treasure boxes. One percent of that would be 640 tokens that would be comprised of URs and better stuff. Now that 8 average is just number I am assuming, which I honestly think it should be higher.

I know I beat the average with my pulls, which most likely means someone else had less luck. If the boxes remain the same, I am sure that will even out over the years.

I'd guess the average token draw is less than 8. 16 (or 17 with 6th Level) is the max (without artifacts), and I'd guess that the vast majority of players are just drawing their basic 3 tokens. I'd think that would pull the average draw below the 8 level.

That 8 per player figure is accurate if the party consists of nine new players and one very greedy token-aholic, like a situation I observed while coaching one of my runs.

The token-aholic had 10 Charms of Avarice to provide to the party.
Others with such extra CoA are generous and usually provide them to their party for free and are happy with the +2 treasure pulls that this allows them.

This one token-aholic made a deal with his party to let them borrow his 9 extra CoA in exchange for HALF of all of their treasure pulls. So not only did he get his extra +2 treasure pulls, but his party donated to the rich man another +72 treasure pulls. So, yes, each of the players in this party averaged 8 treasure pulls instead of 3.

I almost said something to the new players. Maybe I should have.

Why would you have? The new players got 5 additional pulls for no effort on their part - that's more than most of the URTEs alone. I've seen just as many veterans loan out their gear for nothing as I have those that worked out similar types of deals, and in both cases the new players were happy. Not once have I heard anyone complain that they felt they were getting a raw deal.

It is not like that player whomever he or she is is not getting something for the use of the CoA's. Though as someone working for TD (in a volunteer function) it might not have been appropriate for you to say anything. Had I been it the party though I would have said something and loant out the use of my 10 CoA to everyone else. I admit I have been invited on runs for free just because folks know I have 10 CoA's and 10 CoS that I will loan out (and I hope they like running with me). Maybe 72 treasure is equal to or less than a $56 ticket but it just doesn't feel right to me.

I did not see any evidence of an increase in quality tokens from the boxes in either my pulls or anyone in my groups. I had 14 pulls this year and got mostly garbage. Although i did pull my first ever monster bit. Law of averages says there need to be a mix of good/bad but it is still discouraging to hear about first year players pulling Charms of Avarice or other legendaries. Even more discouraging to hear those same players taken advantage of by Gaming Etc.

They were buying CoAs for $600 and selling them for $1500. They were also low balling people for $30 on Icecrags, (selling for $150).

In the future I would like to see uncommons removed from the boxes and only have rares and up. That way it would at least "feel" like we were getting some treasure.

Anyway, congrats to people who pulled something awesome.

Well we pulled over 770 and got ONE relic... now if you are looking for Aragonite, Golden Fleece etc... we did get a bunch of those!

Monster bits have close to 30 each... if you are interested in some of those.

As for the CoAs at gaming etc... (I know some of them really well) the CoAs will probably be at 1K each or so that is what I am told. They are very high priced on everything... hence you go to Kirk at TDTAVERN, very reasonable priced on everything!

jedibcg wrote:

Joshua Baessler wrote:

Kerrik wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

balthasar wrote: Well, assuming there are 8000 or so players, what would you assume the average treasure draw is going to be? Just going to use 8 per player, so that would be 64K tokens in the treasure boxes. One percent of that would be 640 tokens that would be comprised of URs and better stuff. Now that 8 average is just number I am assuming, which I honestly think it should be higher.

I know I beat the average with my pulls, which most likely means someone else had less luck. If the boxes remain the same, I am sure that will even out over the years.

I'd guess the average token draw is less than 8. 16 (or 17 with 6th Level) is the max (without artifacts), and I'd guess that the vast majority of players are just drawing their basic 3 tokens. I'd think that would pull the average draw below the 8 level.

That 8 per player figure is accurate if the party consists of nine new players and one very greedy token-aholic, like a situation I observed while coaching one of my runs.

The token-aholic had 10 Charms of Avarice to provide to the party.
Others with such extra CoA are generous and usually provide them to their party for free and are happy with the +2 treasure pulls that this allows them.

This one token-aholic made a deal with his party to let them borrow his 9 extra CoA in exchange for HALF of all of their treasure pulls. So not only did he get his extra +2 treasure pulls, but his party donated to the rich man another +72 treasure pulls. So, yes, each of the players in this party averaged 8 treasure pulls instead of 3.

I almost said something to the new players. Maybe I should have.

Why would you have? The new players got 5 additional pulls for no effort on their part - that's more than most of the URTEs alone. I've seen just as many veterans loan out their gear for nothing as I have those that worked out similar types of deals, and in both cases the new players were happy. Not once have I heard anyone complain that they felt they were getting a raw deal.

It is not like that player whomever he or she is is not getting something for the use of the CoA's. Though as someone working for TD (in a volunteer function) it might not have been appropriate for you to say anything. Had I been it the party though I would have said something and loant out the use of my 10 CoA to everyone else. I admit I have been invited on runs for free just because folks know I have 10 CoA's and 10 CoS that I will loan out (and I hope they like running with me). Maybe 72 treasure is equal to or less than a $56 ticket but it just doesn't feel right to me.

On the other hand, a player with 10 CoAs has $10-12,000 tied up in those tokens. At $3/treasure, and taking 8 chips, they have to lend out a CoA something like 40-50 times to recoup that.

They could just lend out CoGFs instead at a fraction of the investment for the same two-chip bump to their draws, and the newbies would only get 7 chips instead of 8, even if the patron charged them nothing.

I don't see anything wrong with lending loot tokens, or with charging the borrowing player something for the privilege. They can always just say no and keep their three.

It's a big step up from the early days of True Dungeon, I clearly remember one year I only got one treasure pull and it was a 1 GP token.

Kaledor wrote:
As for the CoAs at gaming etc... (I know some of them really well) the CoAs will probably be at 1K each or so that is what I am told. They are very high priced on everything... hence you go to Kirk at TDTAVERN, very reasonable priced on everything!

I agree and I have happily bought some stuff from Kirk.

Is it just me, or are there more unhappy people in this thread than in the Treasure Draw Disappointment thread?

At any rate, I only had 8 pulls, but they were pretty good for me at least:

Succubus Horn
400GP
300GP
+2 Cloak of Resistance (already have one, so traded away for another 400GP)
+1 Thrall Skull
Arcane Lenses
Shirt of Brawn
Linked Shirt of Healing

Plus, one of my new friends pulled a Gloves of the Cutpurse with his three pulls, so that was pretty cool too.

Allen John wrote: Is it just me, or are there more unhappy people in this thread than in the Treasure Draw Disappointment thread?

Were very contrary around here

On a serious note though I too saw at least one individual loaning out charms of avarice to an entire pickup group in exchange for a 50% cut of the take. Didn't say anything since everyone seemed happy with the arrangement but on some level it just seemed sketchy.

31 pulls.

The most notable were a Bloodless, a CLoak of Blending (which both were sold so I had a little moneyt o spend in the dealer's hall), 8 monster bits..and I think 400GP.

I was pretty happy with that, given I"d not pulled a UR since a Boots of Might my first year way back when.

Picc wrote:

Allen John wrote: Is it just me, or are there more unhappy people in this thread than in the Treasure Draw Disappointment thread?

Were very contrary around here

On a serious note though I too saw at least one individual loaning out charms of avarice to an entire pickup group in exchange for a 50% cut of the take. Didn't say anything since everyone seemed happy with the arrangement but on some level it just seemed sketchy.

Was the individual in that pickup group? I see no problem with loaning out loot tokens to a group you're running with, even if you negotiate a share of the cut (which just seems logical to me and not sketchy at all). If someone loans out Charms of Avarice and splits the loot, both parties are getting more tokens than they'd have otherwise, which seems to be a win-win situation. I'd have a problem with someone using the same set of loot tokens they run with an loaning them to groups they're not running with.

That was almost a problem with the Horns of Plenty back in the day, with people floating the idea of basically "renting" out Horns of Plenty over and over again for a share of the loot. Jeff was so concerned about that he was thinking of solutions like numbering them and limiting the number of times they could be used or "soul bonding" them so each could only be used by one specific person, to prevent it. Fortunately (I think) that nipped that in the bud. I hope that doesn't start becoming an issue. Of course, if someone does that, they are taking a risk that someone might walk with their $1,000 tokens.