TOPIC: E bay seller ???

valetutto wrote: I think pretty much all collectable games become pay to win.

Games that have items that have different rarities where in those rarities are better the more rare they are means those people that can afford to buy the best stuff have an advantage over the ones that don't.

+1

Off the top of my head, the only collectible game (besides TD) that i can think of that has lasted since its inception is MtG. I'd say Heroclix, but they went bankrupt a few years ago before being resurrected a few years later.

Is Pokémon still around? As in actively having expansions coming out. If so, then there is another one.

Luckily!! What makes TD different and immune to dying is that you don't need Tokens to play. If the Token collectors get fed up with power creep and most Tokens being devalued over the years and they decide to seriously cut back on supporting Token buying, then there is a simple solution. Jeff can just slightly alter TD so Tokens aren't needed. Or he can decrease the amount of Tokens produced each year.

Obviously, that would hurt the pre-funding of TD. But, honestly, things will stay the same. Some newbies will turn into Tokenholics; some will never play more than once or twice; and some will play every year with just a handful of C/UC/R/UR Tokens. Basically whatever they get out of the free 10-pack and what they had from the previous year(s).

For example, my wife only plays 1-2 times when she is able to get to GenCon. She only has the weapon Token I give her. That is good enough for her. Although, she has more fun with a couple drinks in her. She says TD is more fun with a buzz.

But that is why we can run the dungeon in normal, hard, and even nightmare? So we can still enjoy the dungeon and have fun, even though we have "paid to play/win"

I wouldn't expect a party of all newbies with only one or two runs under their belt to do, let alone survive, nightmare, but those who have been collecting and trading and, indeed, buying, could survive Nightmare and have fun doing it.

I would hope those who have paid to win, if teaming up in a pick-up game, to play down to the level of the players, not spoil everything, let the newbie melee'ers slide first so they could enjoy it, et al.

I am guilty of paying to win, er, collect that is... I have only played two dungeon runs and am addictsed, even with a bad experience of a semi-experienced rogue, who, no pun intended, went rogue, and spoiled the fun for a few other players, myself included.

Yes, I probably have spent, er, invested too much on my collection, and my paladin and fighter builds probably can do nightmare if other players are similarly equipped. If I play normal mode, essentially it would be like playing non-lethal with my ac in the high 30's, my lowest save a 18, my Melee to hit bonus a 16, and I can shrug off every first combat's hit against me with no damage, and the ability to reroll all saving throws that have a 1 on the die roll... But it is my choice to so equips myself with that which I have collected.

Hopefully I won't repeat that rogue from yesteryear's attitude and actions, and enjoy myself playing courteously and still have fun.

I think it would be neat to outfit other classes, with nothing rarer than a red rare, and challenge a hardcore run with others so equiped. To me this would be fun, even with the expense of the tickets per run.

...and now we're back to a big reason why tokenholics don't want to play with newbies, and they need the ability to buy a full run. If they don't, somebody's fun can easily be ruined: either the newbies who feel outgunned, or the vets who sacrifice the chance to use the collection they've been building for years.

The newbies may not realize it, but they don't want to play with the vets either.

But that's another thread.

This makes total sense to me... Why restrict oneself if you are a collector, and why let collectors ruin your fun?

I like the idea of being able to buy an entire run... So you can build up a party. I just don't know enough people, or really any, to fill it. I hope to get to know lots of people this year so they will be comfortable including me I their runs in future years.

I remember someone who was a volunteer in True Dungeon 101 class who really made the game sound fun to me. I believe she plays a rogue, or that is her preferred character. Her dungeon runs sounded very exciting and made me hope to find like players in my own runs.

Quick point of clarification, the rogue I mentioned earlier in my group is not the same who was in the orientation... The one in my group was arrogant and offensive, refused to get clue, even though we were struggling with puzzles, and who had a girlfriend playing the cleric and he got upset at her for wasting a scroll of minor healing on another player-- said she should only heal him with consumables. In short, he was not a team player. I purchased the libram of looting so I could lend it to the rogue in my pick up games to prevent this from happening again in case I am unluckily enough to get out with a similar minded rogue.

Myron K. Crandall wrote: I remember someone who was a volunteer in True Dungeon 101 class who really made the game sound fun to me. I believe she plays a rogue, or that is her preferred character. Her dungeon runs sounded very exciting and made me hope to find like players in my own runs.

There is someone who conspicuously matches that description . It's Raven (er... Nightshade?) here in the forums.

She's running some of the True Grind's this year in the evening as a DM.

Myron K. Crandall wrote: Quick point of clarification, the rogue I mentioned earlier in my group is not the same who was in the orientation... The one in my group was arrogant and offensive, refused to get clue, even though we were struggling with puzzles, and who had a girlfriend playing the cleric and he got upset at her for wasting a scroll of minor healing on another player-- said she should only heal him with consumables. In short, he was not a team player. I purchased the libram of looting so I could lend it to the rogue in my pick up games to prevent this from happening again in case I am unluckily enough to get out with a similar minded rogue.

Sounds like they were jerks, but hang on a minute...

The rogue gets to pick, clue or treasure - not the party.

I don't think it's fair to get mad at the Rogue for making the treasure choice - especially because the clues are often somewhat lame, or they may know them already, or may just enjoy the RP fun of being the chaotic-neutral Rogue.

If you want the clue so bad - play rogue (or Druid with Bowl of Spirit Sight).

The thing about healing is just weird and makes no sense to me - scrolls are consumables. I think maybe he was upset she was using consumables (which cost money) while still having spells available (which don't)?

Brad Mortensen wrote: ...and now we're back to a big reason why tokenholics don't want to play with newbies, and they need the ability to buy a full run. If they don't, somebody's fun can easily be ruined: either the newbies who feel outgunned, or the vets who sacrifice the chance to use the collection they've been building for years.

The newbies may not realize it, but they don't want to play with the vets either.

But that's another thread.

My group has a lot of long-time veterans, many who have played every year since the first year or two, and we often have new players as well. We've all gotten along great, new players and vets alike.

Although I recognize this isn't quite the same situation you're referring to. The new players aren't at any disadvantage with tokens in our group, since I outfit all the tokens for everyone.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Myron K. Crandall wrote: Quick point of clarification, the rogue I mentioned earlier in my group is not the same who was in the orientation... The one in my group was arrogant and offensive, refused to get clue, even though we were struggling with puzzles, and who had a girlfriend playing the cleric and he got upset at her for wasting a scroll of minor healing on another player-- said she should only heal him with consumables. In short, he was not a team player. I purchased the libram of looting so I could lend it to the rogue in my pick up games to prevent this from happening again in case I am unluckily enough to get out with a similar minded rogue.

Sounds like they were jerks, but hang on a minute...

The rogue gets to pick, clue or treasure - not the party.

I don't think it's fair to get mad at the Rogue for making the treasure choice - especially because the clues are often somewhat lame, or they may know them already, or may just enjoy the RP fun of being the chaotic-neutral Rogue.

If you want the clue so bad - play rogue (or Druid with Bowl of Spirit Sight).

The thing about healing is just weird and makes no sense to me - scrolls are consumables. I think maybe he was upset she was using consumables (which cost money) while still having spells available (which don't)?

There is a reason a few years ago the Rogue got a special t-shirt that said: "I screwed over my Party and got this cool t-shirt" by doing/not doing something in one Room.

But seriously? You're mad at a Rogue/Thief for doing what they do best?! You might as well be mad at a dog for barking at strangers breaking into your home.

Myron K. Crandall wrote: But that is why we can run the dungeon in normal, hard, and even nightmare? So we can still enjoy the dungeon and have fun, even though we have "paid to play/win"

I wouldn't expect a party of all newbies with only one or two runs under their belt to do, let alone survive, nightmare, but those who have been collecting and trading and, indeed, buying, could survive Nightmare and have fun doing it.

I would hope those who have paid to win, if teaming up in a pick-up game, to play down to the level of the players, not spoil everything, let the newbie melee'ers slide first so they could enjoy it, et al.

I am guilty of paying to win, er, collect that is... I have only played two dungeon runs and am addictsed, even with a bad experience of a semi-experienced rogue, who, no pun intended, went rogue, and spoiled the fun for a few other players, myself included.

Yes, I probably have spent, er, invested too much on my collection, and my paladin and fighter builds probably can do nightmare if other players are similarly equipped. If I play normal mode, essentially it would be like playing non-lethal with my ac in the high 30's, my lowest save a 18, my Melee to hit bonus a 16, and I can shrug off every first combat's hit against me with no damage, and the ability to reroll all saving throws that have a 1 on the die roll... But it is my choice to so equips myself with that which I have collected.

Hopefully I won't repeat that rogue from yesteryear's attitude and actions, and enjoy myself playing courteously and still have fun.

I think it would be neat to outfit other classes, with nothing rarer than a red rare, and challenge a hardcore run with others so equiped. To me this would be fun, even with the expense of the tickets per run.

After playing for a few years this is exactly what I have done. I have a total of 20 builds because I'm the guy who outfits our parties. For 10 builds, one for each class, I try and max out best I can for Nightmare runs. The other 10 builds I have built are Red or lower, again one for each class. Now granted, some of these red builds are not that optimal because I've let my kids build their own characters but they are good enough for normal/hardcore runs. So with back packs and binders in tow along with adventure guild buttons for pre game storage, my friends and I can bring both sets of builds with us to any run where we don't know who the other players are. Vets that want to run Nightmare - Pull out the bad boy builds. Rookies - Ready to go with the Red builds.

That's why I don't have a dog... If a stranger breaks into my house the first thing they would hear is my 45 going off...

No, but seriously... If the puzzle is going well, not a problem... But this guy was just a plain old selfish jerk... Wanted his girlfriend to only heal him, consumable or not... not a team player...

But, as you said, it is the rogue's choice... But a good team player would consider the team as well... Not someone I would invite on a run I bought out... But to solve the issue in the future, I bought a Libram of Looting so the rogue can be a chaotic neutral and play his character, getting the loot... But we still get the clue... Plus I bought the Bowel of Spirit Sight to lend to the Druid just in case...

I don't like conflict, I want to have good fun, so if I can find a way to mitigate the problem away, why not? That way we can still have fun and avoid the potential conflict. Assuming of course they are willing to borrow them.

So, the treasure the rogue can choose, is it from the same source as the treasure at the end? Or is it different source, I.e. Not monster bits.

Sounds like being the rogue is best to get extra treasure...

My brother and I have built out red sets for all 12 characters... And I have been adding some ur's to enhance them a bit... Just in case in pick-up games we don't have to arrive 30 min early and pull the level 3 player benefit to pick first... Five of them are level 5 by rings of heroism, charm of heroism, and a medallion of heroism (which I hate that that one prohibits the use of rings).