TOPIC: Pay-to-Win?

mattnaik wrote:

Druegar wrote: I'm well aware of that. What I don't understand is how allowing mixed groups would somehow "trigger the existing rule that all players need to agree to a higher difficulty or it defaults to normal."

Sorry, I suck at explaining. Here are the possible scenarios:

- Everyone agrees to run NM
- Everyone agrees to run HC
- If at least one person wants to run something other than one of the above options, you run normal. Now that normal level is decided, people have the option to run at NL at a reduced XP.

So if you had 9 people who want to run HC and one that wants to run NL, by rule you would all be running Normal. Just by this change that is being discussed, that person could still run NL and everyone else would be running Normal

That's probably why most HC/NM groups don't seem to run PUGs.

mattnaik wrote:

Druegar wrote: I'm well aware of that. What I don't understand is how allowing mixed groups would somehow "trigger the existing rule that all players need to agree to a higher difficulty or it defaults to normal."

Sorry, I suck at explaining. Here are the possible scenarios:

- Everyone agrees to run NM
- Everyone agrees to run HC
- If at least one person wants to run something other than one of the above options, you run normal. Now that normal level is decided, people have the option to run at NL at a reduced XP.

So if you had 9 people who want to run HC and one that wants to run NL, by rule you would all be running Normal. Just by this change that is being discussed, that person could still run NL and everyone else would be running Normal

It seems like that would make the job of the DM's and Exit Room Volunteers more difficult, and introduce a chance for errors that could make people unhappy. Like, DM's or Exit Volunteers getting mixed up on which members were non-lethal and which were Normal mode.

mattnaik wrote:

Druegar wrote: I'm well aware of that. What I don't understand is how allowing mixed groups would somehow "trigger the existing rule that all players need to agree to a higher difficulty or it defaults to normal."

Sorry, I suck at explaining. Here are the possible scenarios:

- Everyone agrees to run NM
- Everyone agrees to run HC
- If at least one person wants to run something other than one of the above options, you run normal. Now that normal level is decided, people have the option to run at NL at a reduced XP.

So if you had 9 people who want to run HC and one that wants to run NL, by rule you would all be running Normal. Just by this change that is being discussed, that person could still run NL and everyone else would be running Normal

I am still failing to see how that would work in combat situations (which someone else brought up). Even in Puzzle rooms it might not work. The year of the Zephyr the room with the columns and tubes that you had to pass the balls to the correct columns to get the required energy levels and number. In normal you only needed to complete 2 series on requirements in Nightmare (and HC if I remember correctly) you need to complete 3.

mattnaik wrote:

Druegar wrote: I'm well aware of that. What I don't understand is how allowing mixed groups would somehow "trigger the existing rule that all players need to agree to a higher difficulty or it defaults to normal."

Sorry, I suck at explaining. Here are the possible scenarios:

- Everyone agrees to run NM
- Everyone agrees to run HC
- If at least one person wants to run something other than one of the above options, you run normal. Now that normal level is decided, people have the option to run at NL at a reduced XP.

So if you had 9 people who want to run HC and one that wants to run NL, by rule you would all be running Normal. Just by this change that is being discussed, that person could still run NL and everyone else would be running Normal

If you let one person run NL in a normal run, that sounds like the guy to try all the puzzles and traps first. Seems a bit "unfair" at that point.

Donald Rients wrote:

mattnaik wrote:

Druegar wrote: I'm well aware of that. What I don't understand is how allowing mixed groups would somehow "trigger the existing rule that all players need to agree to a higher difficulty or it defaults to normal."

Sorry, I suck at explaining. Here are the possible scenarios:

- Everyone agrees to run NM
- Everyone agrees to run HC
- If at least one person wants to run something other than one of the above options, you run normal. Now that normal level is decided, people have the option to run at NL at a reduced XP.

So if you had 9 people who want to run HC and one that wants to run NL, by rule you would all be running Normal. Just by this change that is being discussed, that person could still run NL and everyone else would be running Normal

If you let one person run NL in a normal run, that sounds like the guy to try all the puzzles and traps first. Seems a bit "unfair" at that point.

Great point.

jedibcg wrote:

mattnaik wrote:

Druegar wrote: I'm well aware of that. What I don't understand is how allowing mixed groups would somehow "trigger the existing rule that all players need to agree to a higher difficulty or it defaults to normal."

Sorry, I suck at explaining. Here are the possible scenarios:

- Everyone agrees to run NM
- Everyone agrees to run HC
- If at least one person wants to run something other than one of the above options, you run normal. Now that normal level is decided, people have the option to run at NL at a reduced XP.

So if you had 9 people who want to run HC and one that wants to run NL, by rule you would all be running Normal. Just by this change that is being discussed, that person could still run NL and everyone else would be running Normal

I am still failing to see how that would work in combat situations (which someone else brought up). Even in Puzzle rooms it might not work. The year of the Zephyr the room with the columns and tubes that you had to pass the balls to the correct columns to get the required energy levels and number. In normal you only needed to complete 2 series on requirements in Nightmare (and HC if I remember correctly) you need to complete 3.

Maybe it's something I'm missing but it I don't understand where the confusion is. At a room level NL and normal are identical. There is no difference is there? The only difference is when the NL person moves to the next room they are "rezzed" if they are dead. I've never played NL so I may be wrong here.

We're not talking about mixing anything other than normal and NL. everything else would be off limits.

Donald Rients wrote:

mattnaik wrote:

Druegar wrote: I'm well aware of that. What I don't understand is how allowing mixed groups would somehow "trigger the existing rule that all players need to agree to a higher difficulty or it defaults to normal."

Sorry, I suck at explaining. Here are the possible scenarios:

- Everyone agrees to run NM
- Everyone agrees to run HC
- If at least one person wants to run something other than one of the above options, you run normal. Now that normal level is decided, people have the option to run at NL at a reduced XP.

So if you had 9 people who want to run HC and one that wants to run NL, by rule you would all be running Normal. Just by this change that is being discussed, that person could still run NL and everyone else would be running Normal

If you let one person run NL in a normal run, that sounds like the guy to try all the puzzles and traps first. Seems a bit "unfair" at that point.

Great point. That would be a bit of a loophole that I'm sure people would exploit

Mike Steele wrote:

mattnaik wrote:

Druegar wrote: I'm well aware of that. What I don't understand is how allowing mixed groups would somehow "trigger the existing rule that all players need to agree to a higher difficulty or it defaults to normal."

Sorry, I suck at explaining. Here are the possible scenarios:

- Everyone agrees to run NM
- Everyone agrees to run HC
- If at least one person wants to run something other than one of the above options, you run normal. Now that normal level is decided, people have the option to run at NL at a reduced XP.

So if you had 9 people who want to run HC and one that wants to run NL, by rule you would all be running Normal. Just by this change that is being discussed, that person could still run NL and everyone else would be running Normal

It seems like that would make the job of the DM's and Exit Room Volunteers more difficult, and introduce a chance for errors that could make people unhappy. Like, DM's or Exit Volunteers getting mixed up on which members were non-lethal and which were Normal mode.

Nobody would need to know other than the person who ran non-lethal right? The only difference is they heal up after each room (managed by themselves) and enter non-lethal when they enter their XP (also managed by themselves). Both of those things are done on the honor system. So as Brad mentioned earlier there is no extra confusion. Just explaining things in the coaching room beforehand.

mattnaik wrote:

Donald Rients wrote:

mattnaik wrote:

Druegar wrote: I'm well aware of that. What I don't understand is how allowing mixed groups would somehow "trigger the existing rule that all players need to agree to a higher difficulty or it defaults to normal."

Sorry, I suck at explaining. Here are the possible scenarios:

- Everyone agrees to run NM
- Everyone agrees to run HC
- If at least one person wants to run something other than one of the above options, you run normal. Now that normal level is decided, people have the option to run at NL at a reduced XP.

So if you had 9 people who want to run HC and one that wants to run NL, by rule you would all be running Normal. Just by this change that is being discussed, that person could still run NL and everyone else would be running Normal

If you let one person run NL in a normal run, that sounds like the guy to try all the puzzles and traps first. Seems a bit "unfair" at that point.

Great point. That would be a bit of a loophole that I'm sure people would exploit

So only allow mixed groups where the NL players are level 1 or 2. It's supposed to be there to help newbies anyway, not to be gamed by veterans.

But remember that NL doesn't rez you in the room you died, so I'm not sure how abusable it would be to let the newbies have more interaction than vets. That was one of the biggest complaints newbies had a few months ago, after all.

And yes, DMs and the XP desk don't do anything differently if you're playing NL or Normal or a combination of those two. Any other combination wouldn't work, of course.