TOPIC: Supreme Orb of Dragonkind

Jason Smith wrote: To Matt: It is already ridiculously expensive to create even a single legendary item, heck even some relic items. That already leaves out probably 95+% of all TD players. Now there's a token that leaves out 99.9% of all players from ever hoping to own one. Jeff wanted to create easy transmutes this year to get newbies more involved. The new token is directly contrary to that goal. Sure, a newbie sees that it is easy for him/her to do the simple, low-cost transmute. Then they look at the website and see that that's the only transmute they're going to do because the rest are at least 2 orders of magnitude more expensive.

I have a good friend I attend GenCon with every year. He's been doing TD a lot longer than me, does not have a family to support, has tons of toys, but even he doesn't see the point of burning that much cash to transmute to a Legendary. I wonder how many other people out there are like that?

And what's the point? You get nothing for surviving the run other than satisfaction. So it becomes easier to get the more powerful legendaries. It does not seem outside the realm of possibility of creating even harder difficulty levels... it's just stats.

Anyways, Kirk is right... this is way off-topic. Bottom line is that I do find it an unfortunate choice of gift for token resellers. I'm sure Jeff could have come up with something else as a gift other than a new token set and a transmute that costs $64K and effectively is only for a select few, unless they care to share.

Its really hard to predict the impact of these tokens. You are assuming they will produce a legendary level effect. On the other hand, they might only produce a cosmetic type of effect.

I could see either.

We all play the game at different levels.

We are all on spectrum which runs like this

Black --- Green --- Red --- Purple --- Blue --- Green/Orange

You can have fun at any point on the spectrum.

My first blush reaction to this announcement was not positive. But, again, without knowing the effect its all speculation. Maybe everyone winds up "smelling like fish" or something like that.

We just need to remember that we aren't playing against each other, but with each other. Yes, I am a little jealous of some of the rainbow binders I see people play with, but it doesn't make the game more difficult or less enjoyable for me.

balthasar wrote: We just need to remember that we aren't playing against each other, but with each other. Yes, I am a little jealous of some of the rainbow binders I see people play with, but it doesn't make the game more difficult or less enjoyable for me.

This so much this.

balthasar wrote: We just need to remember that we aren't playing against each other, but with each other. Yes, I am a little jealous of some of the rainbow binders I see people play with, but it doesn't make the game more difficult or less enjoyable for me.

Ik I'm still relatively new but I agree. It about the story & fun with other adventurers. I think that if some people are spending that 8k at least a year that they should get something special. They're helping Jeff & his team to continue to do what they do best and we enjoy best!

And here's another thought, if u needed all 8 of them to make an über powerful token, how many of them would actually be created. Maybe 10-50 if that. If would be a amazing collectior token with some sweet powers but it wouldn't tip the balance that ( even if it was extremely powerful) much if you look @ the grand scheme of things. I am excited to see how Jeff takes the story with it:) just like the Eldritch set powers Druids and Rangers, maybe this is something new for other classes.... I hope!!!!

balthasar wrote: We just need to remember that we aren't playing against each other, but with each other. Yes, I am a little jealous of some of the rainbow binders I see people play with, but it doesn't make the game more difficult or less enjoyable for me.

It actually could make the game more difficult for you (although hopefully not less enjoyable). You'd have to figure the difficulty of the Dungeon is based in part on the tokens that are available, so as the power of the tokens rises, the difficulty of the Dungeons rise accordingly. If you fall further back in the "token power" scale, the Dungeon will likely be more difficult for you, because your token power level isn't keeping pace with the increase in Dungeon difficulty. Of course, that will be felt most strongly on Nightmare level, to a lesser degree on Hardcore, and hopefully it will hardly be felt at all on Normal.

Jason, what you don't understand is that an $8k order is almost 10,000 tokens. Nobody needs that many. The whole TD community probably doesn't need more than two of those.

The trade tokens were created to suck up all the excess. But ingredients are worthless if there's nothing to make with them.

So that's why there are legendaries. They give people a reason to buy more tokens. And token sales are a major source of revenue. My wild guess is that they bring in more than ticket sales.

But if they aren't more powerful, then why would anyone go for them?

So when you see someone with their shiny toys, you should be grateful, not spiteful. Without them, TD tickets would probably be $100 or $200 or more. Which probably means you wouldn't get to play at all.

Mike Steele wrote:

balthasar wrote: We just need to remember that we aren't playing against each other, but with each other. Yes, I am a little jealous of some of the rainbow binders I see people play with, but it doesn't make the game more difficult or less enjoyable for me.

It actually could make the game more difficult for you (although hopefully not less enjoyable). You'd have to figure the difficulty of the Dungeon is based in part on the tokens that are available, so as the power of the tokens rises, the difficulty of the Dungeons rise accordingly. If you fall further back in the "token power" scale, the Dungeon will likely be more difficult for you, because your token power level isn't keeping pace with the increase in Dungeon difficulty. Of course, that will be felt most strongly on Nightmare level, to a lesser degree on Hardcore, and hopefully it will hardly be felt at all on Normal.

True, but I have a good idea of what my limits are and Jeff usually gives us an idea of any difficulty upgrades. I am solidly built for hardcore, and can survive nightmare if the rest of the group is strong. One token, eight years from now, shouldn't have a huge impact on the difficulty of the dungeon. It will be all of the URs released between now and that time.

Brad Mortensen wrote: Jason, what you don't understand is that an $8k order is almost 10,000 tokens. Nobody needs that many. The whole TD community probably doesn't need more than two of those.

The trade tokens were created to suck up all the excess. But ingredients are worthless if there's nothing to make with them.

So that's why there are legendaries. They give people a reason to buy more tokens. And token sales are a major source of revenue. My wild guess is that they bring in more than ticket sales.

But if they aren't more powerful, then why would anyone go for them?

So when you see someone with their shiny toys, you should be grateful, not spiteful. Without them, TD tickets would probably be $100 or $200 or more. Which probably means you wouldn't get to play at all.

I also agree that token sales likely bring in more more money than tickets do, and your assessment is spot-on. Token sales would be dramatically lower without transmutes and that would either raise ticket prices or reduce the quality of the event.

I justify my token spending by equating it to somebody who donates to a theater to put on a production. It's cool that there is a meta game around the tokens as well rather than just getting a t-shirt. I'd probably donate to TD even if it didn't get better tokens but not anywhere near as much. Also without big buyers before me I may never have played TD or perhaps not enjoyed it as much,

jedibcg wrote:

balthasar wrote: We just need to remember that we aren't playing against each other, but with each other. Yes, I am a little jealous of some of the rainbow binders I see people play with, but it doesn't make the game more difficult or less enjoyable for me.

This so much this.

+LIKE

What was the riddle that came with the token? I saw earlier but I can't find it anymore. Can anybody posted please

Jason Smith wrote: Brad: I have a degree in computer science and a minor in math. I think I'm capable of doing the multiplication, thanks.

I didn't mean to be snide or snarky. And I wasn't saying you didn't know how math works. i was saying that you seemed to missed a step somewhere in the chain of logical consequences that start from that first statement.

From your post count, it seemed like maybe you don't know a lot about the True Dungeon business model. If you did, you wouldn't have said half the things you did.

Jason Smith wrote: But what surprises me the most is the ostensible altruism of the "big time collectors" who seem to indicate that their willingness to barter in tokens is a charitable event meant to help TD and not a profit-driven one. I cannot fathom the amount of money these collectors put into TD only to turn around a net loss.

Speaking for myself, I do operate my store at a net loss, and I have the tax records to prove it.

I don't view my activity as "chartiy" - I view it as a hobby that I have that costs me money - the benefits I receive from happy hours spent on this hobby make the money I put into it worthwhile - just as another high cost hobby might for someone else, such as skiing, horse riding, gambling, following a touring band, etc..

The fact that my hobby happens to support the business operations of True Adventures is icing on the cake.