TOPIC: TD Artifact Rule Questions

#1. Caitlin's Charm

A. If David Terry uses a single RoSP voucher, are both of his character cards Prestige classes, is exactly one Prestige, or does he have the option of choosing between one or two Prestige classes (if in some cases he prefers the base class over the prestige)?

B. As a Berserker/Paladin, David is at -47 HP. If he uses the Paladin's Sacrifice ability, is he now at positive +5 HP?

C. What happens if a Paladin/Elf Wizard is Guarding but is Invisible? Can the Invisible Guarding Paladin still be attacked? Does Guarding not work if the Paladin is Invisible? Or does the monster simply get to attack a different target?

D. If David plays a Monk/Ranger, how is he required to do his slides? Does he only slide two or does he get a third attack? Does he do it the Monk way or the Ranger way or either?

E. If David plays a Ranger/Wizard and attacks with two Daggers of Arcane Luck does he get to slide 4 pucks (two of which are empty)?

F. For a Druid/Wizard, how does Spell Surge interact with a Mad Evoker's Charm?

G. If playing as two spellcasting classes and using a Charm of Spell Swapping, can a spell from one class be swapped for a spell from the other?


#2. Gearon's Blessed Cloak

If Gary is at 1 HP and gets hit with a natural 20 by an attack that would deal damage, is he dead or does he just stay at 1 HP?


#3. Kubu's Coin of Coincidence

A. For the landing on a natural 13 side effect, I assume that means the highest target area? So if it was on the border between 13 and 14, that would count as a 14 (and not trigger the effect)? But if it was on the border between 13 and 12, that would count as a 13 and would trigger?

B. If Kubu does slide a natural 13, I assume it would also negate the +10 treasure coins earned at the end of the adventure? In such a case, would the DM simply note that on the party card (-10 treasure coins)?


#4. Lazlo's Bag of Looting

Can the additional slot provided be a hand slot?


#5. Smakdown's Charm of Camaraderie

If there is damage reduction and/or half damage (e.g. Rings of Resistance involved) at what point in the process does the damage get split between Smak and the original target? Do any of Smak's equipment (reduction or resistance) get factored in and does Smak get a separate saving throw?


#6. Widseth's +2 Dancing Sword

The TokenDB states "Side Effect: At the beginning of each adventure, Widseth must sacrifice a 100 GP Ruby Gem (must be that exact item) to activate the sword’s magic."

However my understanding is that any Rare Ruby will suffice (e.g. does NOT have to be exactly the 100 GP Ruby Gem). Can you please clarify?


#7. General

In the past I recall there discussion about how if there are multiple artifacts in a group, a given player can only benefit from one of the group effects. Was this ever formally codified into a rule? If so, can someone please remind me of where to find it? Thanks.

F. For a Druid/Wizard, how does Spell Surge interact with a Mad Evoker's Charm?

Given that the Mad Evoker's Charm affects BASE damage and the Spell Surge affects the whole spell I would ASSUME

(Spell + MEC to double base damage + relevant damage modifiers) * 2 for Spell Surge

Seems accurate?

#4 yes..it says any slot..i can wear two armors..gloves of Dex and gauntlets'
two girdles as long as they are not same..i cant wear 2 girdles or fire giant..but i can wear frost and fire

Incognito wrote: #1. Caitlin's Charm

A. If David Terry uses a single RoSP voucher, are both of his character cards Prestige classes, is exactly one Prestige, or does he have the option of choosing between one or two Prestige classes (if in some cases he prefers the base class over the prestige)?

B. As a Berserker/Paladin, David is at -47 HP. If he uses the Paladin's Sacrifice ability, is he now at positive +5 HP?

C. What happens if a Paladin/Elf Wizard is Guarding but is Invisible? Can the Invisible Guarding Paladin still be attacked? Does Guarding not work if the Paladin is Invisible? Or does the monster simply get to attack a different target?

D. If David plays a Monk/Ranger, how is he required to do his slides? Does he only slide two or does he get a third attack? Does he do it the Monk way or the Ranger way or either?

E. If David plays a Ranger/Wizard and attacks with two Daggers of Arcane Luck does he get to slide 4 pucks (two of which are empty)?

F. For a Druid/Wizard, how does Spell Surge interact with a Mad Evoker's Charm?

G. If playing as two spellcasting classes and using a Charm of Spell Swapping, can a spell from one class be swapped for a spell from the other?


#2. Gearon's Blessed Cloak

If Gary is at 1 HP and gets hit with a natural 20 by an attack that would deal damage, is he dead or does he just stay at 1 HP?


#3. Kubu's Coin of Coincidence

A. For the landing on a natural 13 side effect, I assume that means the highest target area? So if it was on the border between 13 and 14, that would count as a 14 (and not trigger the effect)? But if it was on the border between 13 and 12, that would count as a 13 and would trigger?

B. If Kubu does slide a natural 13, I assume it would also negate the +10 treasure coins earned at the end of the adventure? In such a case, would the DM simply note that on the party card (-10 treasure coins)?


#4. Lazlo's Bag of Looting

Can the additional slot provided be a hand slot?


#5. Smakdown's Charm of Camaraderie

If there is damage reduction and/or half damage (e.g. Rings of Resistance involved) at what point in the process does the damage get split between Smak and the original target? Do any of Smak's equipment (reduction or resistance) get factored in and does Smak get a separate saving throw?


#6. Widseth's +2 Dancing Sword

The TokenDB states "Side Effect: At the beginning of each adventure, Widseth must sacrifice a 100 GP Ruby Gem (must be that exact item) to activate the sword’s magic."

However my understanding is that any Rare Ruby will suffice (e.g. does NOT have to be exactly the 100 GP Ruby Gem). Can you please clarify?


#7. General

In the past I recall there discussion about how if there are multiple artifacts in a group, a given player can only benefit from one of the group effects. Was this ever formally codified into a rule? If so, can someone please remind me of where to find it? Thanks.

Jeff did codify the rule of only one group effect per group. I don't know where we would find that now though.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: F. For a Druid/Wizard, how does Spell Surge interact with a Mad Evoker's Charm?

Given that the Mad Evoker's Charm affects BASE damage and the Spell Surge affects the whole spell I would ASSUME

(Spell + MEC to double base damage + relevant damage modifiers) * 2 for Spell Surge

Seems accurate?

Well, the question is the exact order of operations.

You might recall that in the Year of Smoak, there was a lot of "discussion" about the ruling of how damage reduction would get applied before halving.

But there are also cases where doubling of damage from criticals allows the doubling of some things but not others.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: #4 yes..it says any slot..i can wear two armors..gloves of Dex and gauntlets'
two girdles as long as they are not same..i cant wear 2 girdles or fire giant..but i can wear frost and fire

Last year for Grind, we had to create rules for how to deal with a 3rd hand, so I was just curious if there were mechanics for your artifact.

I assume you would still be limited to the normal amount of sliders based on your class? So as a Monk with 3 hand slots, you can still only attack with 2 sliders, not 3?

And so the main effect is that you could use a one-handed weapon + 2 shields. Or a two-handed weapon + a shield. (or use the extra hand slot for an Orb of Might or Brawler's Mug).

Or speaking in a purely hypothetical situation, if there was a way to get yet an additional hand slot (like if you played Grind last year with 4 hands) could a Bard with 4 hand slots play two different instruments at the same time?

Mike Steele wrote:

Incognito wrote: #1. Caitlin's Charm

A. If David Terry uses a single RoSP voucher, are both of his character cards Prestige classes, is exactly one Prestige, or does he have the option of choosing between one or two Prestige classes (if in some cases he prefers the base class over the prestige)?

B. As a Berserker/Paladin, David is at -47 HP. If he uses the Paladin's Sacrifice ability, is he now at positive +5 HP?

C. What happens if a Paladin/Elf Wizard is Guarding but is Invisible? Can the Invisible Guarding Paladin still be attacked? Does Guarding not work if the Paladin is Invisible? Or does the monster simply get to attack a different target?

D. If David plays a Monk/Ranger, how is he required to do his slides? Does he only slide two or does he get a third attack? Does he do it the Monk way or the Ranger way or either?

E. If David plays a Ranger/Wizard and attacks with two Daggers of Arcane Luck does he get to slide 4 pucks (two of which are empty)?

F. For a Druid/Wizard, how does Spell Surge interact with a Mad Evoker's Charm?

G. If playing as two spellcasting classes and using a Charm of Spell Swapping, can a spell from one class be swapped for a spell from the other?


#2. Gearon's Blessed Cloak

If Gary is at 1 HP and gets hit with a natural 20 by an attack that would deal damage, is he dead or does he just stay at 1 HP?


#3. Kubu's Coin of Coincidence

A. For the landing on a natural 13 side effect, I assume that means the highest target area? So if it was on the border between 13 and 14, that would count as a 14 (and not trigger the effect)? But if it was on the border between 13 and 12, that would count as a 13 and would trigger?

B. If Kubu does slide a natural 13, I assume it would also negate the +10 treasure coins earned at the end of the adventure? In such a case, would the DM simply note that on the party card (-10 treasure coins)?


#4. Lazlo's Bag of Looting

Can the additional slot provided be a hand slot?


#5. Smakdown's Charm of Camaraderie

If there is damage reduction and/or half damage (e.g. Rings of Resistance involved) at what point in the process does the damage get split between Smak and the original target? Do any of Smak's equipment (reduction or resistance) get factored in and does Smak get a separate saving throw?


#6. Widseth's +2 Dancing Sword

The TokenDB states "Side Effect: At the beginning of each adventure, Widseth must sacrifice a 100 GP Ruby Gem (must be that exact item) to activate the sword’s magic."

However my understanding is that any Rare Ruby will suffice (e.g. does NOT have to be exactly the 100 GP Ruby Gem). Can you please clarify?


#7. General

In the past I recall there discussion about how if there are multiple artifacts in a group, a given player can only benefit from one of the group effects. Was this ever formally codified into a rule? If so, can someone please remind me of where to find it? Thanks.

Jeff did codify the rule of only one group effect per group. I don't know where we would find that now though.

yes it was one "group effect" so smak can use both of his..since one is only a group...we can all run together, if we wanted..we would just have to choose what group effect we wanted

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Jeff did codify the rule of only one group effect per group. I don't know where we would find that now though.

yes it was one "group effect" so smak can use both of his..since one is only a group...we can all run together, if we wanted..we would just have to choose what group effect we wanted

Back then I recall discussion of whether only one group effect would apply to the whole group, or whether each individual player would get to decide which group effect they would get. Which one did it end up being?

Incognito wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Jeff did codify the rule of only one group effect per group. I don't know where we would find that now though.

yes it was one "group effect" so smak can use both of his..since one is only a group...we can all run together, if we wanted..we would just have to choose what group effect we wanted

Back then I recall discussion of whether only one group effect would apply to the whole group, or whether each individual player would get to decide which group effect they would get. Which one did it end up being?

That i dont remember..but if I was on a run with a group of artifacts, i would just ask us to chose one for the whole group(like nightmare or hardcore) just to make it easier

I thought there was an artifact that gave HoP as a group effect. Was I wrong on that? I couldn't find it when I looked.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: That i dont remember..but if I was on a run with a group of artifacts, i would just ask us to chose one for the whole group(like nightmare or hardcore) just to make it easier

Yes, that would be simpler.

However, Smak's Charm only has a group effect. And Gertz's Backpack has primarily a group effect (other than the immunity to surprise).

So under that approach, if Smak and Gertz were adventuring together, essentially one artifact wouldn't have an effect (if they can only choose one for the whole group).

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I thought there was an artifact that gave HoP as a group effect. Was I wrong on that? I couldn't find it when I looked.

Kent Golden Apple gives everyone the AoW effect. And there have been times when the AoW gave you the HoP benefit. So that might be what you are thinking of.

Gertz's Backpack gives everyone the effect of tokens that are permanently consumed. In the past he has used an HoP so the Backpack then gave everyone the HoP for that entire con.

Incognito wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: That i dont remember..but if I was on a run with a group of artifacts, i would just ask us to chose one for the whole group(like nightmare or hardcore) just to make it easier

Yes, that would be simpler.

However, Smak's Charm only has a group effect. And Gertz's Backpack has primarily a group effect (other than the immunity to surprise).

So under that approach, if Smak and Gertz were adventuring together, essentially one artifact wouldn't have an effect (if they can only choose one for the whole group).

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I thought there was an artifact that gave HoP as a group effect. Was I wrong on that? I couldn't find it when I looked.

Kent Golden Apple gives everyone the AoW effect. And there have been times when the AoW gave you the HoP benefit. So that might be what you are thinking of.

Gertz's Backpack gives everyone the effect of tokens that are permanently consumed. In the past he has used an HoP so the Backpack then gave everyone the HoP for that entire con.

Ah OK that's what it was

Man I'd love to see those recipies come back one year. Instead of auction maybe as golden ticket level inserts!

Heck, maybe do 1 insert per year and have an epic quest associated with it. (Gather specific tokens each year to trade Jeff for 1 piece of a 4 piece set that completes with a soulforged relic)

Then again I just love the idea of cool effect items like that.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Ah OK that's what it was

Man I'd love to see those recipies come back one year. Instead of auction maybe as golden ticket level inserts!

Heck, maybe do 1 insert per year and have an epic quest associated with it. (Gather specific tokens each year to trade Jeff for 1 piece of a 4 piece set that completes with a soulforged relic)

Then again I just love the idea of cool effect items like that.

Really? I hope Artifacts never make a return.

Firstly, it would help keep the existing Artifacts special.

Secondly, power creep is already making many Artifacts obsolete. Pharacus’ Greater Cloak of Destiny is probably better than Gearon's Cloak. Widseth's +2 Dancing Sword can't keep up with the power creep and will have a harder and harder time hitting monsters every year that goes by. Smak's Charm is less helpful with more and more ways of getting +1 level (from Might set to Medallion of Heroism to Ring of Heroism to Eldritch set). And while the drawback of Caitlin's Charm seemed minor when it was made, it becomes more and more painful due to all the great Charms that are now out there.

Thirdly, while the special cool effects might sound nifty and cool, logistically they are a major PITA. Just take for example the multi-class effect of Caitlin's Charm. Look at my first post and all those issues related to Caitlin's Charm and which are relevant only for this one unique token. When the effect was developed I doubt that TD could have foreseen many of these issues (since many are recent developments).