TOPIC: Horn of Plenty and other such OOP tokens

EN 429 wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

MasterED wrote: It is a good topic because when the Charm of Good Fortune expires this year there will not be a treasure token boosting item being produced.

If the item functions the same as the HoP and occupies the Neck slot the it is a HoP with a different name. Unless it would cost more than an HoP to create it would lower the value of the existing HoP.

Even if it cost more to create and occupied the Ring slot it would likely lower the HoP because Ring is less contested slot than Neck.

If you wanted a new item similar to the HoP then a relic item with only a 2 multiplier is what I would suggest. Make it take the equivalent of 3 UR + trade goods to produce.

BUt there were no extra treaure draw tokens from 2007-2011(HoP in 2007, and RoR in 2011)
So people can get by without extra treasure tokens

I am against reprints and whiners

Sarcastic note
Why stop with the HoP..why not Seg1 and 2..then with Artifacts

I believe Jeff said he would only reprint things I need/want.

And you need/want HoP. Problem solved

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

EN 429 wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

MasterED wrote: It is a good topic because when the Charm of Good Fortune expires this year there will not be a treasure token boosting item being produced.

If the item functions the same as the HoP and occupies the Neck slot the it is a HoP with a different name. Unless it would cost more than an HoP to create it would lower the value of the existing HoP.

Even if it cost more to create and occupied the Ring slot it would likely lower the HoP because Ring is less contested slot than Neck.

If you wanted a new item similar to the HoP then a relic item with only a 2 multiplier is what I would suggest. Make it take the equivalent of 3 UR + trade goods to produce.

BUt there were no extra treaure draw tokens from 2007-2011(HoP in 2007, and RoR in 2011)
So people can get by without extra treasure tokens

I am against reprints and whiners

Sarcastic note
Why stop with the HoP..why not Seg1 and 2..then with Artifacts

I believe Jeff said he would only reprint things I need/want.

And you need/want HoP. Problem solved

Might as well grab 8 or 9 at that point.

EN 429 wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: No one is saying everyone needs a trophy. What's being suggested is offering similar items through the transmutation system that would be of a higher cost to create.

Suggestions are for a token similar to HoP but inferior as an option for those who can't get HoP due to it's scarcity and cost.

If it's weaker than HoP how is that everyone being awarded everything?

if tat is the case, why not reprint the HoP
but and a transmuting of the 2007 HoP where only 2007 version can be transmuted...(2-5x times the regular HoP)

Have a transmute on par with the current HoP, have another that's like double the HoP. Make the transmute very expensive without the HoP or much less if you use the HoP as an ingredient.

Serves to keep the HoP valuable, lets new players have access to an HoP like chip and rewards those who already have one by making it better (more loot/charm slot/etc)

Doesn't this kind of go against the reason you are requesting this? You guys are saying you need something equivalent due to the scarcity and cost of the HoP. Well making another item that costs more or requires HoP users to transmute (or even to get more tokens than the HoP gives now!). I'm with lazlo on this, I didn't start in the beginning either and I was a year or two behind laz. Guess what, I slowly acquired the items I wanted, I traded, scraped, and gathered.

Yea

HoP + RoR + CoGF = 16 loot (more if you're level 6+) plus completion token(s)

Running nightmare and at an average $3/loot (a guess) means we're already past the point where a ticket can be "free"

So a lot of people think that 16 is enough. I really hope no other slot gets a draw token, and I hope none of the three become transmutable into giving more draws. If they do, I'll get them of course... I love loot, too.

But I wouldn't object to the "draw plus save" amulet, or a RoR or CoGF reprint at some point, or maybe a "HoP but no rings" transmute, or something. Just please don't let the max get higher.

But I'm just one guy.

What about just a +3/4/5 draws Amulet? a RoR in amulet form?

(3/4/5 meaning find the correct number for amulet space value, likely 4)

That would seem like a good middle ground?

Of course anything being made like that would drop the HoP price a slight amount but better item is still more money.

I don't think a RoR in Amulet form would not lower the value/price of HoP (+4 vs 3x).

In regards to the starting the game late, I have only been playing for a few years and i have acquired a HoP because of the value of it.

I was only pointing out that there won't be a treasure token bump after this year unless something gets reprinted/added. I am fine with that but being a relatively new player i can sympathize on them wanting another method. If it comes fine, if not so be it.

Ed

I'm only a couple of years into playing and can say I'm against reprints. I missed those items... oh well. If I feel I want or need them I will pay or trade for them. I would much rather see new items every year than reprints. Don't get me wrong. I love the loot, but I love the game even more.

Chris Von Wahlde wrote: I'm only a couple of years into playing and can say I'm against reprints. I missed those items... oh well. If I feel I want or need them I will pay or trade for them. I would much rather see new items every year than reprints. Don't get me wrong. I love the loot, but I love the game even more.

Depends on what you mean by reprints. There are many ultra rare tokens that have been reprinted more than once. The Girdle of Hill Giant Strength has been printed 5 times for Pelor's sake.

The HoP is a special case.

Then there are the "sort of,almost reprints." Arguably the Gloves of Weapon Finesse would be one. +3+0, vs +2+2 on the Mithril Gauntlets. Not quite as nice, but nice enough. Although not all that much nicer than the Gauntlets of Ogre Power at +1+1. A real tweener token.

I don't like reprints in general. I do understand there will be variations of items as its the nature of any game where a new set of items is created on a regular basis. I just prefer to see as many original items as possible. I don't see a need for a reprint of the Horn or any of the "greed" tokens... if I want one I will get one. I'm not going to complain because I missed out because I started playing late. I'm happy just jumping in when I did and finding what I want... I don't need tokens printed just because I'm new.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: What about just a +3/4/5 draws Amulet? a RoR in amulet form?

(3/4/5 meaning find the correct number for amulet space value, likely 4)

That would seem like a good middle ground?

Of course anything being made like that would drop the HoP price a slight amount but better item is still more money.

There are plenty of other slots for a new Token that gives extra draws than the neck slot. The Ioun Slot would seem to be the next logical slot, rather than creating a new token that competes with the HoP. And it is debatable whether a new Amulet that gives +4 draws per run is inferior to the HoP. If you got two treasure stamps it would be equal, and if you got 0 or 1 treasure stamp it would be better. The HoP would only be better for runs in which you get all three treasure stamps.

Chris Von Wahlde wrote: I'm only a couple of years into playing and can say I'm against reprints. I missed those items... oh well. If I feel I want or need them I will pay or trade for them. I would much rather see new items every year than reprints. Don't get me wrong. I love the loot, but I love the game even more.

I've played the game from the very first year, and I'm in favor of selected reprints, and I don't see how having them damages the True Dungeon game. There have been UR reprints from the very start - 2005 was the first year with a full set of UR's, and there were several reprints in the 2006 Token Set. There have been UR reprints virtually every single year, and I don't think they have caused any harm to the game.

I thought Ektdar's Tinkering Tool was an outstanding choice for reprinting this year, giving newer players access to a key token for the Rogue class that had been out of print for years. I think that Widseth's Lute is overdue for reprinting, as it gives newer players the ability to both fight and sing as Bards. I also think tokens like Ring of Riches and Charm of Good Fortune are good choices for periodic reprints.

I do understand that there are very passionate viewpoints on both sides of this issue, and it is a challenge for Jeff to find a middle-ground that satisfies as much of the True Dungeon constituency as possible while also staying true to Jeff's vision for the game.

Mike Steele wrote:

Chris Von Wahlde wrote: I'm only a couple of years into playing and can say I'm against reprints. I missed those items... oh well. If I feel I want or need them I will pay or trade for them. I would much rather see new items every year than reprints. Don't get me wrong. I love the loot, but I love the game even more.

I've played the game from the very first year, and I'm in favor of selected reprints, and I don't see how having them damages the True Dungeon game. There have been UR reprints from the very start - 2005 was the first year with a full set of UR's, and there were several reprints in the 2006 Token Set. There have been UR reprints virtually every single year, and I don't think they have caused any harm to the game.

I thought Ektdar's Tinkering Tool was an outstanding choice for reprinting this year, giving newer players access to a key token for the Rogue class that had been out of print for years. I think that Widseth's Lute is overdue for reprinting, as it gives newer players the ability to both fight and sing as Bards. I also think tokens like Ring of Riches and Charm of Good Fortune are good choices for periodic reprints.

I do understand that there are very passionate viewpoints on both sides of this issue, and it is a challenge for Jeff to find a middle-ground that satisfies as much of the True Dungeon constituency as possible while also staying true to Jeff's vision for the game.

I agree with your sentiments here.