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TOPIC: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please

Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #49

Raven wrote: I'm going to go against the grain here, and say that as a coach, I do not like the "graphical" token mat.

I agree it will be easier to use for newbies, and it definitely looks friendlier.
Unfortunately, it puts the relevant info (which will need to be entered onto the party card) all over the place.

If it is just new/token-lite players using this mat, then it should still be pretty easy.
But If it's players with 50+ tokens, then I will need to transfer them all to a sheet which breaks them down by bonuses, or I know I will make errors. Lots of errors.

...


Thanks for the feedback! I much appreciate your veteran Coach and player perspective. I am sorry for the confusion -- as it is buried in the post, but the token mats will be double-sided -- with the grid from last year (in a cleaner format) on the back. The graphical side says to flip it over if you have more tokens than can fit on the graphical side. So...we are trying to thread the needle here a bit -- by having something not as useful for Coaches traded off for something much better for about 80% of the players.

Hopefully, this whole new scheme will pay off -- combining the individual Coaching rooms, extra time before the event time, Coach Room signage, and the new Coaching room table config to make the whole experience much better for players and Coaches.
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Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #50

Raven,

I agree with you that it's going to harder on the judge to write down all the stats with the new cards with someone who has 50+ tokens and will require a scanning pass of the card by the judge for each type of stat (saves, AC, +damage, +hit, special) which will mean more time to do so.

I think the time savings will come in the form of not coming up to a player and have to help them place all the tokens on the mat, like I notice last year.

I strongly agree that good lighting is required in the prep rooms.
You don't have to outrun the monster, just the guy next to you - The buddy system.

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Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #51

Don't know if it would help, but once a player has put the tokens on the mat there's nothing that says you can't move them around or flip them over as you tally them up - some tokens have multiple bonuses, but that's a problem regardless of which side of the mat you use. For instance, Helmet of Fortitude gives +1 AC and +3 Fort, but you can only put the token in one line of the grid or the other.
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Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #52

Brad Mortensen wrote: Don't know if it would help, but once a player has put the tokens on the mat there's nothing that says you can't move them around or flip them over as you tally them up - some tokens have multiple bonuses, but that's a problem regardless of which side of the mat you use. For instance, Helmet of Fortitude gives +1 AC and +3 Fort, but you can only put the token in one line of the grid or the other.


not to mention that once you have a lot of tokens you can start either intentionally or accidentally equipping too many of an item if they arent sorted by slot. maybe i have a crown of might equipped, but dont see a helm in my AC row so i throw down my helm of retribution too. when i was a coach last year, keeping track of slots was the most difficult thing.
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Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #53

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The token sign looks great and is really clear. Nice job!
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Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #54

Thanks for the clarification Jeff and Druegar. I admit, I did miss the "double-sided nature" somewhere along the line.

As long as we can get the right groups of people using the "right" mats (not that either mat is particularly wrong) then I think it will work out smoother than going with either one exclusively.
Perhaps our mistake last year was trying to make a "one size fits all" mat.

And I agree with you Alvin - a lot of time was wasted last year just trying to explain to new players how the mat was supposed to work. If a graphical mat is more self-explanatory and user-friendly, then the time savings there alone will make up for any token-shuffling into a stat-friendly format.

Brad: I did exactly that (a lot) last year, dropping tokens from one row to another as I marked off the relevant bonuses. It was easier for me to keep track of it that way. In fact, the mat said if a token fit in multiple rows, to put it in the top one, and it could be slid down later. Unfortunately, the poor lighting, overwhelming info, and rushing players for time by moving room to room combined to create a lot of confusion.

Thanks to Jeff for addressing these issues, and to everyone else for providing input towards these changes.
I'm really looking forward to another year of Coaching TD :)
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Last edit: by Raven.

Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #55

The graphical side will help many of the newer players I think. I had many questions about "where does this token go" and often it was gold or some other non-stat item.

The double sided should help as well because the 25+ token folks can use the "Advanced" side to speed things along.

The 50+ people IMO really need a way to come in with a pre-printed sheet.
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Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #56

Raven,

I'm glad you brought everything up! As I am new to TD and haven't coached any of it before, I appriciate all the vocal people here that give Jeff great feedback and open up discussions that will make TD a better experience for all.

Next we just need RFID tags in the tokens that convey the stats to a hand held that builds the character and prints out the stats on a reciept type paper! Just kidding that would be nuts!
You don't have to outrun the monster, just the guy next to you - The buddy system.

Cranston's Character Generator for iDevices or Character Generator for Android

Amorgen's Excellent Excel Character Generator

Have you checked the Token DataBase ?

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Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #57

I really like the new mat and its focus on helping new players from getting overwhelmed.

I have a suggestion for the header text. Common questions from new players are what to do with gear, scrolls, and gp. The answer to those questions is in the paragraphs at the top of the mat, but it is a bit buried. Maybe you can break out these sentences to be more distinct and to stand out more obviously at the top of the mat. I also tweaked the sentence on gear to include scrolls and potions.

"Tokens for Gear (eg Mirror, Whetstone), Scrolls, or Potions are always available if carried. Do not put them on this mat-- keep them with you to show the DM in the dungeon if you want to use them.

Tokens with a GP value are traded outside the adventure. You don't need to put them on the mat or to use them in the dungeon. "
-Scott<br /><br />'an object at rest cannot be stopped'

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Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #58

Jeff Martin wrote: Here is the first draft of the Token Sign to be hung in each Coaching Room and inside the "lobby" of each Inn where tickets are turned in.

We will also hang a "Before Your Event Start Time Checklist" in each Coaching Room. I hope to have that first draft posted soon.

Any thoughts on this sign?


Hi Jeff,

Is there a need to mention how to know which tokens are permanent, which are consumable, and which have charge counters showing how many uses it has (and what the charge counters look like and mean)? From what I've seen there is sometimes confusion with newer players that they have to hand some tokens in after using them.

Thanks,
Mike

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Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #59

valetutto wrote: The graphical side will help many of the newer players I think. I had many questions about "where does this token go" and often it was gold or some other non-stat item.

The double sided should help as well because the 25+ token folks can use the "Advanced" side to speed things along.

The 50+ people IMO really need a way to come in with a pre-printed sheet.


A station out in the storyscape where people could get a verified, pre-printed sheet for their character might help quite a bit. Just a computer or two with the excel sheet that could print an individual character sheet and a list of their tokens. Then the coach would only need to do a check list of the tokens listed and they would be done.
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"Mamma always said that True Dungeon is like a box of Drow Poisons. Ya never know how you're gonna die."

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Re: New Token Mat < Feedback Needed, Please 7 years 6 months ago #60

On the "what's a token" poster - a question I hear a lot is "what's with this silver one?" it would be good if there was room to explain every tenth token is printed on a 'platinum' back. The color has no affect on the way the token works, but some players consider them slightly more valuable in trade for collecting purposes.
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