TOPIC: So is the SRoEC worth it?

I would agree. The ring does not offer literal command. It is just a term of endearment.

Now, can we all argue and fight until everyone is dead but me?

Druegar wrote:

Christopher Nieporte wrote: If you had the SRoEC, or the specific Ring of Elemental Command (i.e. Fire for Fire Elemental, Earth for Earth etc.), could you use it to command the elemental to tell you the solution to the puzzle/to return to its native plane (i.e. defeat it without fighting it). It seems like the ring could function this way based on the name.

That question can only be answered by Jeff because he's the one who writes the modules.

However, it's my personal (read: totally UNofficial) opinion/prediction that in spite of the reasonable conclusion one might draw from their names, the various rings of elemental command will not allow you to control an elemental.

Well, I wasn't just basing the hypothetical on the name alone, but on how the Elemental Command rings functioned in D&D. Even so, I wouldn't want it to just completely solve the puzzle/defeat the combat, but what would be cool is if someone who had the correct ring (or SRoEC) might get an extra clue/benefit.

For example (story-wise) the master of the elemental is able to maintain control due to his/her stronger magic, but the momentary clash of control allows the elemental to give a clue to solve the puzzle (puzzle side) or the elemental loses an action/takes a minus to hit or damage due to the clashing magics of the ring/master of the elemental.

Christopher Nieporte wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Christopher Nieporte wrote: If you had the SRoEC, or the specific Ring of Elemental Command (i.e. Fire for Fire Elemental, Earth for Earth etc.), could you use it to command the elemental to tell you the solution to the puzzle/to return to its native plane (i.e. defeat it without fighting it). It seems like the ring could function this way based on the name.

That question can only be answered by Jeff because he's the one who writes the modules.

However, it's my personal (read: totally UNofficial) opinion/prediction that in spite of the reasonable conclusion one might draw from their names, the various rings of elemental command will not allow you to control an elemental.

Well, I wasn't just basing the hypothetical on the name alone, but on how the Elemental Command rings functioned in D&D. Even so, I wouldn't want it to just completely solve the puzzle/defeat the combat, but what would be cool is if someone who had the correct ring (or SRoEC) might get an extra clue/benefit.

For example (story-wise) the master of the elemental is able to maintain control due to his/her stronger magic, but the momentary clash of control allows the elemental to give a clue to solve the puzzle (puzzle side) or the elemental loses an action/takes a minus to hit or damage due to the clashing magics of the ring/master of the elemental.

this sounds interesting and seems like it could be implemented without overpowering the rings.

Christopher Nieporte wrote: what would be cool is if someone who had the correct ring (or SRoEC) might get an extra clue/benefit.

I agree, that would be neat (and IMO, reasonable).

I suspect that the Rings of Elemental Command simply have a good publicist.

And personally, I've always considered them upgraded Rings of Elemental Resistance.

(Though the idea of actually COMMANDING elementals is nice n' appealing... "Now kill the Barbarian, firey minion! Bah Ha Ha!" )

There should certainly be opportunity built into an encounter for that very expensive ring to offer some advantage to the wearer, whether it be included in the power permanently or just made available at a convenient time.

I always thought of the rings as giving you command over the "element" rather then "elementals" of that type. Ah the joys of an implicit language.01101100 01101111 01101100 00001101 00001010

WaterSomePlants wrote: I suspect that the Rings of Elemental Command simply have a good publicist.

And personally, I've always considered them upgraded Rings of Elemental Resistance.

(Though the idea of actually COMMANDING elementals is nice n' appealing... "Now kill the Barbarian, firey minion! Bah Ha Ha!" )

This may be splitting hairs, but I consider them more of a sidegrade, highly dependant on the situation, because the resitance rings reduce damage by half, whereas the elemental rings reduce it by a static amount, which could end up being either more or less than the half damage from the resistance rings. Of course, there is the added benefit of the bonus damage, but that only applies if you are struck in melee.

Looking at the example of Smoak's breath weapon from two years ago. The Ring of Fire Elemental only prevented 5 damage (10 damage if someone had the SRoEC, although that would have been impossible at the time), and the bonus damage wouldn't trigger. The Ring of Fire Resistance however, would prevent half of that damage outright, which would be 30 pts of damage prevented outright. In that case, the ring of resistance is a better item than the Elemental command ring.

Let's look at another situation, however. In this case, lets assume the enemy is a fire elemental, who when he hits in melee, deals fire damage instead of physical. Let's say, it deals 8 damage per hit. Also, because the elemental is comprised of pure fire, lets say being in the same room with him, causes people to take 4 fire damage per turn because of being too close to it. In this case, the Elemental commmand ring would be better because it prevents 5 damage (or 10 in the case of the SRoEC). This means the elemental would still do 3 damage on a hit, but the aoe aura would do no damage to the person holding the elemental ring. However, if you had the resistance ring on this part, you would take 4 damage per hit from the elemental, and 2 damage from the damage aura, which in this case makes it less desirable than the Elemental command ring.

Granted, like I said, this was probably just splitting hairs, and my examples would be highly dependent on those exact situations, but, that is how I view the Elemental Command rings/rings of resistance.

Christopher Nieporte wrote: Let's say, in some future year, one of the rooms involves contact with an elemental (for the purposes of this, we'll assume its either a fire/water/earth/air). Let's say that if this were a puzzle run, you would solve a puzzle for the elemental, or you would fight the elemental in the combat run.

If you had the SRoEC, or the specific Ring of Elemental Command (i.e. Fire for Fire Elemental, Earth for Earth etc.), could you use it to command the elemental to tell you the solution to the puzzle/to return to its native plane (i.e. defeat it without fighting it). It seems like the ring could function this way based on the name. Granted this might make the token way too powerful, but at the same time, fit with how the ring would work in normal D&D.

(I've only played this year, and last year, so I don't know if an Elemental has appeared at any other time, and had a situation like this come up, so this might be a moot question)

Actually there was a Fire Elemental one year (which you had to fight) and the Ring of Fire Elemental Command did not let you do anything special with it.

Picc wrote: Honestly it doesn't really matter the DM made the call so its done but for the record. Throw a rope to your friends on the other side, have them tie one end off, tie the other end to yourself swing over then have them pull you up, repeat. No dex check required just a good knot. Or use the ropes you have to fix the bridge. This issue was more around the fact that we used a rope to move tiles from one side of the chasm to the other and were told we could not do the same with people because the rope would break despite the elven rope token clearly saying it could support 1000 pounds. Either way though the room was fun so lets just let it go.

Instead of explaining that you couldn't do it due to weight limits, maybe they should have used another excuse. Dangerous man-eating birds would attack you if you swung across and you'd be defenseless against them whereas the magical bridge would provide protection from them.

There have been a number of complaints regarding DMs and their training/consistency. TD has taken a number of steps to address these concerns, but there will still be problems.

Volunteers are asked to report early for DM review and training, including in the specific rooms in which they will be working.

Adventure coordinators for each dungeon check in with DMs during their shifts to address issues, answer questions, review the module, and so on.

Over the course of the con, and over long shifts, though, DMs might get tired or forgetful. They make mistakes. We do what we can to reduce that through preparation.

Another issue is that there were a significant number of volunteers who either had to change rooms (maybe they were losing their voice) or who never showed up for a shift, leaving us to find substitute DMs to cover those rooms. I think the subs that stepped in did a great job under the circumstances.

And regarding the bridge puzzle: a FLY scroll could work for one person, although you could make an argument saying heavy winds could prevent that (not the flight, but controlled flight). If I DMed the room, I might say the elven ropes would take too long (longer than solving the puzzle), and if I allowed them, I would make characters roll a reflex save to avoid plunging to their deaths. Just do the puzzle! I thought it was great!

The elemental control did work; I made it snow in several rooms. Also, Incognito does mark damage well, but he is an exceptional DM who has an excellent grasp of the rules and when to work or stretch them.

The ring is worth transmuting IMO because of the improve resistance and the fact that its value will increase when it becomes an essential piece of the Eldritch set. Thankfully the druid is getting more power and improved healing, that way the cleric can just focus on sliding and combat and ignore healing. The druid is way underpowered now anyway (sprinkle generous helping of sarcasm HERE )