TOPIC: Charm of Treasure Idea

It doesn't have to be additive. Another Neck item would be okay, as long as it is less than a HoP

Picc wrote: Numbers could be tweaked with but conceptually what do people think of having a hypothetical new treasure find item not stack with the existing ones.


(Honestly I'm still in favor of the simple guaranteed 3 stamp charm but as long as were brainstorming I wanted to throw this out too)

And a follow-up if 'no' to the no-stacking option: If jeff says that a new treasure item stacking with old is NOT an option, would you support a non-stacking treasure item? And why?

Another idea is a general limit on treasure items: what if you are limited to two treasure items? ...exclude artifacts, just for you, Laz.
This would not affect anything until a new treasure item comes out. Gives new players another way to get treasure and give old players more options. But keeps an overall limit on bonus treasure draws. This would need a lot more thought on TDs part compared to just reprinting the ring of riches, but probably worth considering.

kurtreznor wrote: Another idea is a general limit on treasure items: what if you are limited to two treasure items? ...exclude artifacts, just for you, Laz.
This would not affect anything until a new treasure item comes out. Gives new players another way to get treasure and give old players more options. But keeps an overall limit on bonus treasure draws. This would need a lot more thought on TDs part compared to just reprinting the ring of riches, but probably worth considering.

Might be easier just to limit the number of bonus treasures a player could receive with some kind of hard cap so it wouldn't matter how you got to X coins you just couldn't have more then X. Still I concede that any kind of limitation will seem like a sideways nerf to the HOP/ROR users out there if they cant receive the same benefit from the new treasure generator as someone coming in fresh. Still that goes both ways though since new players can always complain they weren't around to get a HOP before it went out of print.

Charm of Treasure:

Gain 1 bonus treasure + 1 for each Charm Slot left empty

Gain 6 treasures if you use this + Necklace of Charms and no other charms . . .

Gain 3 treasures if this is your only charm . . .

Gain 1 Treasure if you use all your Charm Slots.

Picc wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Another idea is a general limit on treasure items: what if you are limited to two treasure items? ...exclude artifacts, just for you, Laz.
This would not affect anything until a new treasure item comes out. Gives new players another way to get treasure and give old players more options. But keeps an overall limit on bonus treasure draws. This would need a lot more thought on TDs part compared to just reprinting the ring of riches, but probably worth considering.

Might be easier just to limit the number of bonus treasures a player could receive with some kind of hard cap so it wouldn't matter how you got to X coins you just couldn't have more then X. Still I concede that any kind of limitation will seem like a sideways nerf to the HOP/ROR users out there if they cant receive the same benefit from the new treasure generator as someone coming in fresh. Still that goes both ways though since new players can always complain they weren't around to get a HOP before it went out of print.

new people will always complain about not being around when XXXXX was made...if you want it bad enough, you will wheel and deal for it

darkangel866 wrote: Charm of Treasure:



Gain 6 treasures if you use this + Necklace of Charms and no other charms . .

Gain 1 Treasure if you use all your Charm Slots.

again this makes the HoP weak...it is the same slot...it would be better than the HoP

i think you would want to keep old tokens relevant

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: again this makes the HoP weak...it is the same slot...it would be better than the HoP

In order for the proposed charm to get 6 treasures, you need 2 ur and wear no other charms.

Charm + charm necklace (wearing no charms) = 6 treasures
Charm + hop (wearing no other charm) = potentially 9 treasures
Charm And wearing full charms compliment = 1 treasure

The biggest issue I think would be wether or not charms would sell after this. . .

darkangel866 wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: again this makes the HoP weak...it is the same slot...it would be better than the HoP

In order for the proposed charm to get 6 treasures, you need 2 ur and wear no other charms.

Charm + charm necklace (wearing no charms) = 6 treasures
Charm + hop (wearing no other charm) = potentially 9 treasures
Charm And wearing full charms compliment = 1 treasure

The biggest issue I think would be wether or not charms would sell after this. . .

I'm confused about your middle option. Is that maybe 3 tokens from the Charm, and 0-6 from the HoP? If so, you could argue that the Charm + Charm Necklace is better than Charm plus HoP, because 6 guaranteed tokens may be better than 3-9 tokens.

This could hurt token sales for a couple reasons. First, like you mentioned, anyone getting this would be buying no other Charms. Also, people with HoPs wouldn't be buying this, it would be trading all 3 charm slots for just 3 tokens.

It would also be a nightmare at the checkout desk for them to figure out all the possibilities.

Far better to just leave it up to Jeff to decide whether another token awarding treasure coins is something he wants to do, or if he just wants to wait a few years and reprint the RoR. Jeff may decide to do a Charm of Treasure if the cost to him of the extra tokens isn't too much of a burden, and if the benefits (increased token sales as people buy it, plus people having it wanting to do more runs) outweigh the cost.

And like I said earlier, if additional draws from the regular token boxes is cost prohibitive, they could easily be draws from the treasure map boxes - after all the Relic and Legendary token turn-ins, Jeff probably has a lifetime supply of tokens for those boxes.

I'd recommend either a token that is clearly good (extra token draws, treasure map token draws, or treasure stamps) or just wait to reprint the RoR.

Mike Steele wrote:
I'm confused about your middle option. Is that maybe 3 tokens from the Charm, and 0-6 from the HoP? If so, you could argue that the Charm + Charm Necklace is better than Charm plus HoP, because 6 guaranteed tokens may be better than 3-9 tokens.

I'm just kicking around more ideas. This one seemed pretty plausible. And here's a longer breakdown to remove confusion:

Treasure Charm (Gain 1 Treasure Token + 1 Treasure Token for each unused Charm slot)

Treasure Charm, full slots of Charms = 1 treasure + S (S = Stamps)
Treasure Charm, using 1 additional Charm = 2 treasure + S
Treasure Charm, using no other Charms = 3 treasure + S
Treasure Charm, using no other Charms and Charm Necklace = 6 treasure + S
Treasure Charm, using 1 additional Charm and Charm Necklace = 5 treasure + S
Treasure Charm, using 2 additional Charm and Charm Necklace = 4 treasure + S
etc. . .

Treasure Charm + HoP, full slots of charms = 1 treasure + 3S (S = Stamps)
Treasure Charm + HoP, 1 additional charm = 2 treasure + 3S
Treasure Charm + HoP, no other Charms = 3 treasure + 3S

Add 3 Treasure to each calculation if using a RoR. . .

This could hurt token sales for a couple reasons. First, like you mentioned, anyone getting this would be buying no other Charms. Also, people with HoPs wouldn't be buying this, it would be trading all 3 charm slots for just 3 tokens.

Its okay if HoP owners don't buy it (and I think they would). HoP owners are a small percentage of token buyers, and this token does not directly interfere with the HoP. It could even double PYP sales to some individuals (if the Charm Necklace is still available).

The trade of 3 slots for 3 tokens is a choice each person would make individually. I personally would only use this token to get 1-2 tokens (not willing to give up my Questor's and I own a HoP.) How many people have Charms of Synergy that wouldn't give up the extra HP? A lot of people don't want to trade survivability for riches . . .

It would also be a nightmare at the checkout desk for them to figure out all the possibilities.

Not at all. Just make the HoP/RoR/TC box on the party card have 3 check marks (RoR, HoP, TC) and a spot to write "X + Y" X = Stamps or HoP, Y = additional treasures:

H + 3 (HoP + RoR)
S + 1 (TC using all Charms)
H + 6 (Hop + RoR + TC using no charms)
S + 9 (RoR + TC + Charm Necklace - using no Charms)

It would just be one more token to verify possession of after the run (like HoP or RoR)

Far better to just leave it up to Jeff to decide whether another token awarding treasure coins is something he wants to do, or if he just wants to wait a few years and reprint the RoR. Jeff may decide to do a Charm of Treasure if the cost to him of the extra tokens isn't too much of a burden, and if the benefits (increased token sales as people buy it, plus people having it wanting to do more runs) outweigh the cost.

Didn't you start this thread? (I know that sounds snarky, sorry) I'm enjoying throwing ideas out there, and I hope others are enjoying reading them. Even if nothing comes from them, it has been fun dreaming up the ideas.

And like I said earlier, if additional draws from the regular token boxes is cost prohibitive, they could easily be draws from the treasure map boxes - after all the Relic and Legendary token turn-ins, Jeff probably has a lifetime supply of tokens for those boxes.

I'd recommend either a token that is clearly good (extra token draws, treasure map token draws, or treasure stamps) or just wait to reprint the RoR.

KISS is important. I don't think this idea is too far out of scope for any high school graduate to understand though. . . And having a token that makes choices tough for character building can be good too.

How I look at PULL-TOKENS (Tokens like HoP and RoR that are there to just let the player get more treasure) is this: There's an inherent give and take: the neck slot is POWERFUL, and it's a big deal to give up an AoW, AoG, (or even the Charm Necklace in a few years) to get treasure pulls.

So maybe a PULL-TOKEN that pushes that...

Charm of Greed
+ Wearer gets more treasure
- Wearer can't score crits

Or

Charm of My Precious
+ Wearer gets LOTS more treasure
- Wearer can't be healed

Something that plays with that treasure vs awesomeness in the dungeon dynamic would be cool to see...

Yeah!