TOPIC: 2006 tokens?

Like grandma says, K.I.S.S.<br />Keep it simple sweetheart.

how ever the decision goes for the quantity of common, rare, very rare tokens gets resolved, did anyone consider that people might get tokens from some of the larger traders/collections instead of buying from TD. that needs to be avoided if possible. the means of revenue for TD must be protected to further allow playing.<br /><br />i hope that doesn't sound weird, but it seems like way to much work goes into the whole thing. and i feel like that might undermine costs/expenses/something.<br /><br />just my 2 gold worth.

Smak,<br /><br />ummmm did you see my post just a few posts back?  I think that the trading of tokens is here to stay and most everyone that has bought more than 10 bags or so will be trading...be it with players or in the shop(s).<br /><br />TD needs to keep trading in mind and encourage it, as I think they are (better light in the Tavern for example).  Trading means that people are interested in the tokens and that the interest is bigger than just people buying bags.  This is a good thing.<br /><br />Of course we have the UBER collectors with 100s of bags who open shops...and that is all good too - I mean TD gets the $$ that way.  <br /><br />The key is to keep a strategy growing - keep doing things like adding PURPs to the mix...rotating certain tokens out of collections etc.  KISS is definately the thing to do as we have discussed expansion pack strategy, individual CLASS bags and now varied random content bags, and my money is on things staying pretty much the same as they have from the get go.

Gary,<br /><br />This is just a guess on my part, but Smakdown might have meant purchasing tokens from some of the larger collectors. As in someone who has bought several hundred bags making new bags out of their leftovers and selling them. That is something I think we would want to avoid. Trading tokens, or selling them on an individual basis is fine. But to compare it to CCG, while it is ok to trade and to sell single cards or specific assortments, the manufacturers wouldn't want someone making random "booster packs" of their duplicates and selling them for the same price as stores.

thats what i was trying to say, heidi. i know i wasn't very clear. i just couldn't figure out how to say it. i ate a big bowl of StupeeDos brand cereal this morning. hehe everything going wrong today. thanks for clearing up my mess. hehe

Heidi,<br /><br />Good point - the word SMAK used was "get"...and when I responded I left it vague as well - we can "get" from eBay or in trades started from the token collection tool or whatever, and that is totally out of TD control...anyone could bag up assortments like the two lots that just sold on eBay and TD can't moderate that.  Now I'm not taking the standpoint that TD wants to encourage that - but they sure can't put an end to it. (Now that SMAK has cleared it up - I think what I am saying here still applies)<br /><br />I think the bright side here is that our traders are trading in the off season and very seldom does $$$ come into the picture (I have only been approached for $$$ once and declined).  Also, traders are not allowed to sell at the CON - so I don't think TD suffers much from the traders selling tokens.  <br /><br />In fact I think collectors like Silkie, George and Smak are being cheered for helping give great deals to the noobs that trade off one red to outfit as many of the group as they can.  This helps TD in that someone who still wants to have the common dungeon gear can get it from these sources...and not spend $ on random luck in token bags.  Does this hurt TD sales...perhaps, but if the noob just wants rope and leather armor, and was not planning on buying a bag of tokens above what comes with the ticket...then I say - it helps TD by letting the person get what they think they needed to have a successful adventure - and thus enjoy their adventure.

Personally, I think the traders do more for token sales than not.  Of course it all depends on the types of things a trader would trader for.  On the one hand, trading for that one needed token takes away what might have been a two or three bag sale by that person trying to get one.  But as Gary suggested, a happy player is probably worth more than the extra bag sold.  Plus I believe the flourishing trade by the players (in the form of lords and traders) stimulates interest in the tokens.  So I am not interested in limiting or regulating token trading.  You are correct that tokens could be purchased with cash, but since Gencon forbids that, I would hope the traders and collectors honors the rules.  Abuse of the system might just well prevent any trading what so ever in the tavern which would be a shame.<br /><br />I know that several of the traders as SoCal were taking gold and probably some other things they didn’t have a use for to help people out.  I though this was great and is another reason I wanted to push for other uses for the gold, so that a trader willing to trade in gold would have other uses for the gained tokens.  <br /><br />I am more concerned with unbalancing or upsetting this new fragile economy.  I think we need establish and maintain the ratio of available tokens for each category of common, rare, and very rare.  If we maintain the ratios as much as possible, that is the extent of the meddling I feel we should do (aside for some creative price fixing in the shops ).  I would prefer the people (players and traders) figure out for themselves the best way to use and trade the tokens.<br /><br />If there is enough interest in trader’s packs at a higher price, then it might be worth while to make them available, in a limited quantity.  Some would be sold online and some at the event, but there would only be a fixed number of bags created, and only a fixed number available per sale or day or something like that.  This would help keep the traders happy and also preserve the balance of ratios of tokens.<br /><br />Of course it’s Jeff that will have to decide…<br /><br />Dave<br />

Just wanted to kick in $.02...<br /><br />Think different packs is a neat idea, but an unbalanced one in the way it was suggested.  Also, might be a bit too much to worry about.  Am I mistaken, or did the last run of tokens sell out?  Then why change?  From a business standpoint, it seems unnecessary.  The interest is there; I don't think the form will matter.<br /><br />Second, I was one of those people who was taking gold at SoCal.  Why?  So I could use it to buy goods.  It would be a shame if a good section of the tokens became useless - people need to be willing to trade for gold, or else you might as well take the tokens out of circulation.  And, I honestly think it is up to the traders to make sure this happens.  I sold a +2 Sword at SoCal for 2200 Gold, with a solid 1/3 of that in GP.  Then, I used the GP to buy other items.  Worked out fine for all involved, and it kept GP circulating through the system.

Hey guys,<br /><br />First, it is good to see such a discussion and exchange of ideas regarding the TD economy.  While certainly, it is not "the game", it is still an important part of player enjoyment and should be preserved and encouraged.<br /><br />Like Gary mentioned, whether good for TD or not, TD can not regulate token sales or trades for that matter.  Further, as mentioned before, the player happiness should always be taken into consideration with an emphasis on customer service at all times.  This was the motivation for multiple pack options.<br /><br />Having said that, maintaining a stable C:R:VR ratio is important and this was the reason that I argued against mass printing of Rares as a way to outfit groups a while back.  At this point its all guesswork, but it seems that based on feedback, these Noble packs would be significantly more popular and could skew the ratio.<br /><br />As for gold, the value depends on TDs continued willingness to accept gold as a currency in the shops which I don't see changing.  But like Dave mentioned, I think giving gold other functions would help fortify the economy.<br /><br />And finally, back to new token bag mixes, there are other options of course but by definition, if you change the token ratios in the bags, you change the C:R:VR ratio.  It seems like the bulk of the objection was to the Noble pack SO... how about:<br /><br />Travelers Pack ($5): 12 commons, 1 rare (small chance of a VR)<br />Adventurers Pack ($10): 7 commons, 2 rares, 1 very rare<br /><br />Doesn't upset the value of the VRs (or Rares for that matter), while still gives the option for new players a cheaper alternative to get them "addicted" to tokens (like 1/2 a pack of cigarettes)  LOL!  :^)  And keeps players happy.  Another benefit of this is giving players purchasable access to commons (i.e. more money for TD) instead of forcing them down the "trade with players route".  Its also simple... <br /><br />Anyway, good discussion!<br />-Douglas<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br />Travelers Pack ($5): 12 commons, 1 rare (small chance of a VR)<br />Adventurers Pack ($10): 7 commons, 2 rares, 1 very rare<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br />My objection to the "travelers pack" is that it costs Jeff 30% more to make (3 extra tokens) and he only get get half as much income.   A major goal of the tokens is to raise money for TD.   The Travelers packs might even cost more to make than Jeff gets for them.  <br /><br />I think the ratio of token in existance is not important at all.  I am going to buy a lot of tokens.  I don't want to have boxes full of common tokens, sitting next to my boxes of common Magic cards (50,000 common magic cards).  I don't want Jeff to have to go to the trouble of printing and Lori (and others) packaging tokens that I am going to just store in boxes.  TD can make more money (and Lori spend some extra time with the new baby) if less common tokens are printed.  <br /><br />

<br />

<br /><br />Travelers Pack ($5): 12 commons, 1 rare (small chance of a VR)<br />Adventurers Pack ($10): 7 commons, 2 rares, 1 very rare<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br />My objection to the "travelers pack" is that it costs Jeff 30% more to make (3 extra tokens) and he only get get half as much income.   A major goal of the tokens is to raise money for TD.   The Travelers packs might even cost more to make than Jeff gets for them.  <br /><br />I think the ratio of token in existence is not important at all.  I am going to buy a lot of tokens.  I don't want to have boxes full of common tokens, sitting next to my boxes of common Magic cards (50,000 common magic cards).  I don't want Jeff to have to go to the trouble of printing and Lori (and others) packaging tokens that I am going to just store in boxes.   TD can make more money (and Lori spend some extra time with the new baby) if less common tokens are printed.  <br />

<br /><br />George,<br /><br />Based on websites I have seen, tokens are approximately $0.08 each.  Printing 3 extra tokens costs TD, $0.24 (or 5% of the sale price).  <br /><br />But more importantly, while making money is certainly important for TD, there are other issues to consider.  For example, bringing people that might be reluctant to spend an additional $10, "into the fold" with cheaper intro sets.  Also getting people to come back next year by giving them something of value in the TD world and by creating advertising as people carry these tokens with them through the Con.<br /><br />

<br /><br />Based on websites I have seen, tokens are approximately $0.08 each.  Printing 3 extra tokens costs TD, $0.24 (or 5% of the sale price).  <br /><br />

<br /><br />In quanties of 1000 for each token they are around  $0.08 - $0.10 each.  For smaller quanties of each token the price rises fairly quickly.  At 250 of each token it was about $0.25 each.  And while 15% of the sale price may not sound like much, depending on the other costs, like the bag, it could work out to 30-40% of the profit.<br /><br /><br />