TOPIC: Star Trek - Flame War Free Thread

I really enjoyed the sixth movie - I remember hearing they were rushing one out for the anniversary after not planning on doing one, so I wasn't expecting much, and was VERY pleasantly surprised.  I only enjoyed one Next Generation movie (First Contact), so I'm glad to be back with the Original Crew again, even if it's not the original cast. I hope they somehow find a way to get a guest-role for Shatner as Kirk in a future movie, but I guess that's probably not going to happen since they are swearing off Time Travel for now.  

Overall, I enjoyed it.  The script was fairly weak, but if you place it in the context of setting up the new characters for the future, well then maybe it was not so bad.  The casting was fairly good and the acting was not too bad either.  Their use of the "magic reset button" pretty much took the wind out of continuity arguements.  <br /><br />I think the bigger question is not so much if the movie appeals to die hard fans, but will it bring in a new group of fans.  Realistically, it just might serve to reinvent the franchise, but I guess that depends on how Paramount handles things.<br /><br />

<br />I think the bigger question is not so much if the movie appeals to die hard fans, but will it bring in a new group of fans.<br />

<br /><br />I would agree with your assessment there, since it seems (if various boards are to be believed) that a majority of the die hard fans really, really hate it.

I must be in the minority then - my friends and I are die-hard, long-term fans, and we all loved it.  It does seem to be bringing in the non-die-hard fans also, since the box-office drops have been relatively small (even smaller than Iron Man's drops last year).  It will be interesting to see how the international box office goes, since reportedly the Star Trek movies usually fared poorly overseas. 

I have not heard that the majority of fans have hated it - I've heard and read quite the opposite.<br />

I wonder how much of the negative response stems from the reality that, for some, any movie made without the original cast will not pass muster.<br /><br />Without being able to resurrect a couple of people, and run the rest through age renewal, that just is not going to happen.<br /><br />I also wonder if my willingness to accept other actors in the role has been somewhat tempered by the New Voyages (a.k.a., Star Trek Phase II) works.  I have already somewhat gotten in the habit of seeing other actors in the traditional roles.<br /><br />My impression is that die hard fans seem to believe if only the original team were together (including Rodenberry, writers, directors, and actors) producing content today, that it would work.  I am not entirely convinced of that.  I tend to think that even if you got the same talent together working on the project today, there would be a high likelihood of the result being a completely different beast altogether.  <br /><br />I think I have said it before, but I am apparently not as picky as other fans.  I am willing to see if they can make something of this new start, or if they will just bunger it up like usual.  (Just keep Fox or the SciFi channel out of it…)<br />

I won't go into what makes one a 'die hard' or not a die-hard, but I consider myself to be among the group (having read all the available texts up through 2004, when schooling eliminated the free time required to undertake such an endeavor) and I did not like it one bit.  <br /><br />Personally, I feel it was pandering and in many ways completely changed the very base roots and characters of many of the characters that over the past 40+ years many fans have grown to love and the changes they have made bode very poorly for the canon resulting from events that we have seen happen elsewhere in the series that are not directly tied to the events of the movie.  <br /><br />***Warning: Potential Spoiler Ahead***<br /><br />Like the Talosians from "The Cage"/"The Menagerie."  Does anyone here actually feel that the new Kirk would have handled that situation anywhere near how Pike handled it in the original series?  We know that Spock didn't really help in that situation, since he was there in the initial canon.  (Please don't try to say 'it happened before the events of the film', since it was established in the film itself that the Enterprise was just going out really for the first time in the movie.)<br /><br />Yes, I understand having Sulu at the Helm, since that's where he customarily was put in the series, but does anyone remember what department he was originally assigned to in the pilot?  Sciences.  Sulu was a botanist.  Not a helmsman.<br /><br />How about the Probe from Star Trek IV?  No Vulcan means no fal-tor-pan, no fal-tor-pan means no Spock, no Spock means no time travel to retrieve humpback whales, no whales means Earth is destroyed in the events of Star Trek IV.<br /><br />***Spoiler-potential End***<br /><br />As we learned from "City on the Edge of Forever," (and current theories on quantum physics) alternate universes don't exist.  <br /><br />Keeler lived, WWII had a different end, and Kirk/Spock/McCoy had no way to get home.  Keeler died, and they could go home and everything was made correct again.  One universe, correcting itself.  No alternate universes.  <br /><br />Essentially, all that this movie did was take the more popular conceptions of the series, pay them lip service and give people flashy visuals.  The longstanding repercussions of the movie may yet be felt, but unless they correct the timeline (which doesn't seem likely from everything I've seen) humanity is in as grave danger as Vulcan, and every modern series in the Star Trek franchise is essentially wiped clean from the face of existence.<br /><br />Is that good?  To some, yes.  To me personally? No.

It seems that the existence of the Mirror Universe (which was shown in the Deep Space 9 Episodes to still exist) proves the existence of alternate realities in the Star Trek universe.  That is an alternate reality that is in existence.  <br /><br />Since Spock saved the elders of Vulcan and they are establishing a new colony, the Vulcan traditions such as fal-tor-pan might be restored, might they not?  <br /><br />Even if not, who is to say that some other solution might be found to issues like the Probe in Star Trek IV?  If nothing else, you'd have to think Old Spock might mention it to someone before it becomes a disaster (hey - if you go back in time - you might want to get a couple of whales).  <br /><br />And who knows - maybe there will be some sort of disaster in this timeline that won't be handled successfully like in the original timeline - that is where the excitement of uncertainty comes from.  <br /><br />I do recognize that there are some inconsistencies between this movie and the previous continuity, but to me they seem minor and don't bother me.  I respect that they might bother others more. 

<br />I saw the movie on opening night and loved it. I don't think the plot was anything to write home about, but the character development and *fresh* interpretation of the Classic series was fun and intriguing. I chalk up all discrepencies in the movie to be the effect of the time-line tampering mentioned earlier in this thread.<br /><br />Maybe Sulu was heavily influenced by an instructor to become a botonist by someone who was killed on Kirk's father's ship...?<br /><br />I definately am not going to lose any sleep over the ultimate rectification of Star Trek continuity across all shows/movies. I love Star Trek, but don't have any issues with someone pressing a giant "reset" button.  =)<br />

I thought it was fun but the plot was a little weak.<br /><br />******* SPOILERS *********<br /><br />1) The insta-promotion to Captain at the end was way out of the realm of believable.  I think they should have had Star Fleet Academy blown up by the planetary drill - that combined with the rest of the fleet being blown up by The Hulk could have made it more plausible that Kirk becomes Captain at that age.<br /><br />2) I was hoping for a little Pon Farr action in the elevator.

<br />2) I was hoping for a little Pon Farr action in the elevator.<br />

<br /><br />Weren't we all.<br />

<br />

<br />2) I was hoping for a little Pon Farr action in the elevator.<br />

<br /><br />Weren't we all.<br /> <br />

<br /><br />I really wasn't, but that's because it wasn't Spock's time of the decade