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TOPIC: Imitation is flattery I guess

Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #13

Even at GenCon there are some alternatives that I would say are in the same genre as TD.

I've been meaning to try Dungeon Crawl Adventurer for a few years to see what it's like. I think I walked by the room it's in and unless they were almost done with teardown the build quality isn't even remotely in the same league (all I saw were normal black curtains on bars for room seperations), but at least the description sounds like TD with shuffleboard swapped for more traditional LARP weapons. It also seems like you buy tickets to be the monsters in the dungeon as well.

I did do what was labelled as an escape room called Into the Dragon's Lair this year which was built out very much like TD (multiple fairly well constructed rooms with some staging space between the rooms for transitions at the room timeouts, multiple groups going through simultaneously, costumed NPCs). It didn't have a combat component, but where TD puzzle rooms are generally built on teamwork to collectively accomplish a single task or working through maybe 1-3 tricky aspects of what is essentially a riddle or logic based puzzle, these rooms had multiple smaller puzzles/activities going on simultaneously. It also had an animatronic monster which was on par with TD maybe 4-5 years ago. It was 60 minutes of gameplay rather than 84 but under half the cost. I don't know that the company that runs it can scale beyond 1 event per con, but I would consider this a legitimate upcoming TD competitor (minus the collectible aspect of tokens) if they can.

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Last edit: by Aegoce.

Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #14

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Brad Mortensen wrote:

FatalDrakkon wrote: Looks like it, I enjoyed that his link led to a dead page with basically no more information.


When I follow Harlax’s Link I end up on a Kickstarter for rainbow dice and dice bag


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Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #15

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I just signed up for 1 each day, just to see how it changes each day. I am expecting a escape room with gear.
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.

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Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #16

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I'm going to put this puppy to rest right now...

I've known Cosmo Joe for a few years now. I met him and his fiancé through Jolly Blackburn when we were all working on getting the Live Action Series of The Knights Of The Dinner Table filmed. No... I am not Ken Whitman... LOL!! Only a few will get that.

4 or 5 years ago I bought out an entire Run of TD. I gave 9 of the tickets to Jolly, some of the KenzerCo Knights and friends and Cosmo and his fiancé. We all had a great time. It was either that year or the next that Jeff created the Gazebo Token homaging KoDT.

Cosmo loved it so much he spent the next couple years planning how to create his own TD-lite gaming system. It is in total homage to Jeff and he is not looking to compete with TD. Cosmo just wants to spread the love and appreciates friendly competition. Cosmo's system debuted at Gary Con 2018. I wasn't able to demo it because his debut conflicted with a 1st Edition D&D tourney I was in. I couldn't pass it up because it turns out my DM for that tourney was the legendary Zeb Cook!!

He's tweaked it since then and now he's going to use pins/buttons instead of Tokens to power up characters. The system itself is more RPG-based and the characters level up/get stronger the more you play them. You create your own character. At least that's the way it was a couple years ago when he sent me a pdf of the Rule Book to get my opinions.

If you all want to try his game I encourage it. I can't speak enough great things about Cosmo Joe. But there is no secret plot, no competition beyond friendly, no animosity, no usurping, and no whatever else you all want to try and create out of thin air.
"It's treason then."



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Last edit: by Ro-gan.

Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #17

Ro-gan wrote: I'm going to put this puppy to rest right now...

I've known Cosmo Joe for a few years now. I met him and his fiancé through Jolly Blackburn when we were all working on getting the Live Action Series of The Knights Of The Dinner Table filmed. No... I am not Ken Whitman... LOL!! Only a few will get that.

4 or 5 years ago I bought out an entire Run of TD. I gave 9 of the tickets to Jolly, some of the KenzerCo Knights and friends and Cosmo and his fiancé. We all had a great time. It was either that year or the next that Jeff created the Gazebo Token homaging KoDT.

Cosmo loved it so much he spent the next couple years planning how to create his own TD-lite gaming system. It is in total homage to Jeff and he is not looking to compete with TD. Cosmo just wants to spread the love and appreciates friendly competition. Cosmo's system debuted at Gary Con 2018. I wasn't able to demo it because his debut conflicted with a 1st Edition D&D tourney I was in. I couldn't pass it up because it turns out my DM for that tourney was the legendary Zeb Cook!!

He's tweaked it since then and now he's going to use pins/buttons instead of Tokens to power up characters. The system itself is more RPG-based and the characters level up/get stronger the more you play them. You create your own character. At least that's the way it was a couple years ago when he sent me a pdf of the Rule Book to get my opinions.

If you all want to try his game I encourage it. I can't speak enough great things about Cosmo Joe. But there is no secret plot, no competition beyond friendly, no animosity, no usurping, and no whatever else you all want to try and create out of thin air.


Nope - you are definitely Whitman - get him! He still has the original video footage for episodes 2 and 3 for KoDTLaS!
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

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Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #18

Fred K wrote:

Ro-gan wrote: I'm going to put this puppy to rest right now...

I've known Cosmo Joe for a few years now. I met him and his fiancé through Jolly Blackburn when we were all working on getting the Live Action Series of The Knights Of The Dinner Table filmed. No... I am not Ken Whitman... LOL!! Only a few will get that.

4 or 5 years ago I bought out an entire Run of TD. I gave 9 of the tickets to Jolly, some of the KenzerCo Knights and friends and Cosmo and his fiancé. We all had a great time. It was either that year or the next that Jeff created the Gazebo Token homaging KoDT.

Cosmo loved it so much he spent the next couple years planning how to create his own TD-lite gaming system. It is in total homage to Jeff and he is not looking to compete with TD. Cosmo just wants to spread the love and appreciates friendly competition. Cosmo's system debuted at Gary Con 2018. I wasn't able to demo it because his debut conflicted with a 1st Edition D&D tourney I was in. I couldn't pass it up because it turns out my DM for that tourney was the legendary Zeb Cook!!

He's tweaked it since then and now he's going to use pins/buttons instead of Tokens to power up characters. The system itself is more RPG-based and the characters level up/get stronger the more you play them. You create your own character. At least that's the way it was a couple years ago when he sent me a pdf of the Rule Book to get my opinions.

If you all want to try his game I encourage it. I can't speak enough great things about Cosmo Joe. But there is no secret plot, no competition beyond friendly, no animosity, no usurping, and no whatever else you all want to try and create out of thin air.


Nope - you are definitely Whitman - get him! He still has the original video footage for episodes 2 and 3 for KoDTLaS!


I felt so sorry for Jolly and Barbara through that whole Whitmann debacle. I'm glad Jolly was finally able to get a DVD out, I've got a copy of it.

This new Dungeon does sound interesting, and they say it will be at GENCON next year. It sounds much more role playing than TD, with costumes, spell components, actual traps and physical challenges, etc.

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Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #19

Ro-gan wrote: Jeff created the Gazebo Token homaging KoDT.

I love KotDT, but it kind of saddens me that it's incorrectly getting credit for the original Gazebo story.

KotDT adapted that strip from a much earlier story: Eric and the Dread Gazebo

This is the original story :
The Tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo
by Richard Aronson

In the early seventies, Ed Whitchurch ran "his game", and one of the participants was Eric Sorenson. Eric plays something like a computer. When he games, he methodically considers each possibility before choosing his preferred option. If given time, he will invariably pick the optimal solution. It has been known to take weeks. He is otherwise, in all respects, a superior gamer. Eric was playing a Neutral Paladin in Ed's game. He was on some lord's lands when the following exchange occurred:

ED: You see a well groomed garden. In the middle, on a small hill, you see a gazebo.
ERIC: A gazebo? What color is it?
ED: [pause] It's white, Eric.
ERIC: How far away is it?
ED: About 50 yards.
ERIC: How big is it?
ED: [pause] It's about 30 ft across, 15 ft high, with a pointed top.
ERIC: I use my sword to detect good on it.
ED: It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo.
ERIC: [pause] I call out to it.
ED: It won't answer. It's a gazebo.
ERIC: [pause] I sheathe my sword and draw my bow and arrows. Does it respond in any way?
ED: No, Eric, it's a gazebo!
ERIC: I shoot it with my bow. [roll to hit] What happened?
ED: There is now a gazebo with an arrow sticking out of it.
ERIC: [pause] Wasn't it wounded?
ED: OF COURSE NOT, ERIC! IT'S A GAZEBO!
ERIC: [whimper] But that was a +3 arrow!
ED: It's a gazebo, Eric, a GAZEBO! If you really want to try to destroy it, you could try to chop it with an axe, I suppose, or you could try to burn it, but I don't know why anybody would even try. It's a @#$%!! gazebo!
ERIC: [long pause. He has no axe or fire spells.] I run away.
ED: [thoroughly frustrated] It's too late. You've awakened the gazebo. It catches you and eats you.
ERIC: [reaching for his dice] Maybe I'll roll up a fire-using mage so I can avenge my Paladin.

At this point, the increasingly amused fellow party members restored a modicum of order by explaining to Eric what a gazebo is. Thus ends the tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo. It could have been worse; at least the gazebo wasn't on a grassy gnoll. Thus ends the tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo. A little vocabulary is a dangerous thing.

The above is Copyright © 1989 by Richard Aronson. Reprinted with permission. The author grants permission to reprint as long as all copyright notices remain with the text.
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections/suggestions in this thread .
If I write something in teal, it should not be taken seriously.

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Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #20

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Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #21

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Thanks, Druegar!! I stand corrected. And, after reading the original story it does sound familiar. I guess the mind does tend to go as one gets older. LOL!!
"It's treason then."



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Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #22

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Mike Steele wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Ro-gan wrote: I'm going to put this puppy to rest right now...

I've known Cosmo Joe for a few years now. I met him and his fiancé through Jolly Blackburn when we were all working on getting the Live Action Series of The Knights Of The Dinner Table filmed. No... I am not Ken Whitman... LOL!! Only a few will get that.

4 or 5 years ago I bought out an entire Run of TD. I gave 9 of the tickets to Jolly, some of the KenzerCo Knights and friends and Cosmo and his fiancé. We all had a great time. It was either that year or the next that Jeff created the Gazebo Token homaging KoDT.

Cosmo loved it so much he spent the next couple years planning how to create his own TD-lite gaming system. It is in total homage to Jeff and he is not looking to compete with TD. Cosmo just wants to spread the love and appreciates friendly competition. Cosmo's system debuted at Gary Con 2018. I wasn't able to demo it because his debut conflicted with a 1st Edition D&D tourney I was in. I couldn't pass it up because it turns out my DM for that tourney was the legendary Zeb Cook!!

He's tweaked it since then and now he's going to use pins/buttons instead of Tokens to power up characters. The system itself is more RPG-based and the characters level up/get stronger the more you play them. You create your own character. At least that's the way it was a couple years ago when he sent me a pdf of the Rule Book to get my opinions.

If you all want to try his game I encourage it. I can't speak enough great things about Cosmo Joe. But there is no secret plot, no competition beyond friendly, no animosity, no usurping, and no whatever else you all want to try and create out of thin air.


Nope - you are definitely Whitman - get him! He still has the original video footage for episodes 2 and 3 for KoDTLaS!


I felt so sorry for Jolly and Barbara through that whole Whitmann debacle. I'm glad Jolly was finally able to get a DVD out, I've got a copy of it.

This new Dungeon does sound interesting, and they say it will be at GENCON next year. It sounds much more role playing than TD, with costumes, spell components, actual traps and physical challenges, etc.


Barb still holds some stress about it. Jolly is over it but will still talk about it if asked.

I got a couple copies of the DVD. I just loaned it out the other day and the girl said she loved it.
"It's treason then."



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Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #23

Druegar wrote:

Ro-gan wrote: Jeff created the Gazebo Token homaging KoDT.

I love KotDT, but it kind of saddens me that it's incorrectly getting credit for the original Gazebo story.

KotDT adapted that strip from a much earlier story: Eric and the Dread Gazebo

This is the original story :
The Tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo
by Richard Aronson

In the early seventies, Ed Whitchurch ran "his game", and one of the participants was Eric Sorenson. Eric plays something like a computer. When he games, he methodically considers each possibility before choosing his preferred option. If given time, he will invariably pick the optimal solution. It has been known to take weeks. He is otherwise, in all respects, a superior gamer. Eric was playing a Neutral Paladin in Ed's game. He was on some lord's lands when the following exchange occurred:

ED: You see a well groomed garden. In the middle, on a small hill, you see a gazebo.
ERIC: A gazebo? What color is it?
ED: [pause] It's white, Eric.
ERIC: How far away is it?
ED: About 50 yards.
ERIC: How big is it?
ED: [pause] It's about 30 ft across, 15 ft high, with a pointed top.
ERIC: I use my sword to detect good on it.
ED: It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo.
ERIC: [pause] I call out to it.
ED: It won't answer. It's a gazebo.
ERIC: [pause] I sheathe my sword and draw my bow and arrows. Does it respond in any way?
ED: No, Eric, it's a gazebo!
ERIC: I shoot it with my bow. [roll to hit] What happened?
ED: There is now a gazebo with an arrow sticking out of it.
ERIC: [pause] Wasn't it wounded?
ED: OF COURSE NOT, ERIC! IT'S A GAZEBO!
ERIC: [whimper] But that was a +3 arrow!
ED: It's a gazebo, Eric, a GAZEBO! If you really want to try to destroy it, you could try to chop it with an axe, I suppose, or you could try to burn it, but I don't know why anybody would even try. It's a @#$%!! gazebo!
ERIC: [long pause. He has no axe or fire spells.] I run away.
ED: [thoroughly frustrated] It's too late. You've awakened the gazebo. It catches you and eats you.
ERIC: [reaching for his dice] Maybe I'll roll up a fire-using mage so I can avenge my Paladin.

At this point, the increasingly amused fellow party members restored a modicum of order by explaining to Eric what a gazebo is. Thus ends the tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo. It could have been worse; at least the gazebo wasn't on a grassy gnoll. Thus ends the tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo. A little vocabulary is a dangerous thing.

The above is Copyright © 1989 by Richard Aronson. Reprinted with permission. The author grants permission to reprint as long as all copyright notices remain with the text.


Never heard the full story, thanks, Druegar!

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Imitation is flattery I guess 3 months 3 weeks ago #24

Druegar wrote:

Ro-gan wrote: Jeff created the Gazebo Token homaging KoDT.

I love KotDT, but it kind of saddens me that it's incorrectly getting credit for the original Gazebo story.

KotDT adapted that strip from a much earlier story: Eric and the Dread Gazebo

This is the original story :
The Tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo
by Richard Aronson

In the early seventies, Ed Whitchurch ran "his game", and one of the participants was Eric Sorenson. Eric plays something like a computer. When he games, he methodically considers each possibility before choosing his preferred option. If given time, he will invariably pick the optimal solution. It has been known to take weeks. He is otherwise, in all respects, a superior gamer. Eric was playing a Neutral Paladin in Ed's game. He was on some lord's lands when the following exchange occurred:

ED: You see a well groomed garden. In the middle, on a small hill, you see a gazebo.
ERIC: A gazebo? What color is it?
ED: [pause] It's white, Eric.
ERIC: How far away is it?
ED: About 50 yards.
ERIC: How big is it?
ED: [pause] It's about 30 ft across, 15 ft high, with a pointed top.
ERIC: I use my sword to detect good on it.
ED: It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo.
ERIC: [pause] I call out to it.
ED: It won't answer. It's a gazebo.
ERIC: [pause] I sheathe my sword and draw my bow and arrows. Does it respond in any way?
ED: No, Eric, it's a gazebo!
ERIC: I shoot it with my bow. [roll to hit] What happened?
ED: There is now a gazebo with an arrow sticking out of it.
ERIC: [pause] Wasn't it wounded?
ED: OF COURSE NOT, ERIC! IT'S A GAZEBO!
ERIC: [whimper] But that was a +3 arrow!
ED: It's a gazebo, Eric, a GAZEBO! If you really want to try to destroy it, you could try to chop it with an axe, I suppose, or you could try to burn it, but I don't know why anybody would even try. It's a @#$%!! gazebo!
ERIC: [long pause. He has no axe or fire spells.] I run away.
ED: [thoroughly frustrated] It's too late. You've awakened the gazebo. It catches you and eats you.
ERIC: [reaching for his dice] Maybe I'll roll up a fire-using mage so I can avenge my Paladin.

At this point, the increasingly amused fellow party members restored a modicum of order by explaining to Eric what a gazebo is. Thus ends the tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo. It could have been worse; at least the gazebo wasn't on a grassy gnoll. Thus ends the tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo. A little vocabulary is a dangerous thing.

The above is Copyright © 1989 by Richard Aronson. Reprinted with permission. The author grants permission to reprint as long as all copyright notices remain with the text.


I didn't know the Gazebo wasn't originally KoDT. A version of that same story appears in one of the first 5 or 6 issues of KoDT - most likely Jolly got permission from Aronson to do it (he is definitely not the type to steal anyone else's ideas - he's one of the most honest people I've interacted with in gaming publishing). In Jolly's version, Brian lobs a fireball at it and the party is shocked when they hear it's just standing there smoldering - when they attack it in melee, it finally eats them out of DM frustration.
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

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