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TOPIC: Paladin question

Re: Paladin question 6 years 11 months ago #13

Was planning on posting the full situation today but my appointment in town took longer than I expected so I only got it partly wrote up. Will post it tomorrow once I have it finished.

But I can answer that a paladin would have no problem with just executions. They would see it as society keeping law above men. A paladin would have problems with executions if innocent people.
Striking from the shadows of my reality.            If you want peace be prepared for war."The truth will set you free, but it'll make you miserable first." - I know who said it but his name would make some people mad and I would rather you think about the quote."Question with boldness the very existence of God, for surely He would rather honest questioning over blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Paladin question 6 years 11 months ago #14

Okay I’m sorry that this took way longer than I had hoped. I have not been feeling very good for the last few days. I’ve just been exhausted and sleeping a lot.

To start off I would like to make it known that my original post is what I think my character would do if I am told what really happened because I was not present during the confrontation.

So let me lay out the different storylines and the lead up to the confrontation.

The main over riding storyline is that we are being manipulated by the overall bad guy so that he can obtain an artifact. Or that is what I have figured out so far. And this main bad guy will be a factor in one of the sub-stories.

The next big story in our group is the fact that they are the perfect symphony of dysfunctionality in the key of idiocy. We are on our third leader of the group. I had been playing another character that I had hoped to have develop down a specific path but they managed to force unwanted alignment changes. So I had him disappear so that he did not kill the rest of the party for their stupidity. In his place I started playing this paladin to try to bring the party back in line. However as I was being introduced to the party we went through our latest leader change. Thus I was to new to the party to be considered. As a result the half-orc barbarian/psychic warrior of the party became the leader.

We are currently playing the Fortress of the Yuan-Ti module. Our DM has made a slight change in that he made a dwarven tribe in league with the Yuan-Ti. Which became relevant when the dwarf in our party got into a confrontation in a local inn. That is after another inn refused to allow us to stay due to the dwarf without an explanation. The confrontation involved a patron at the bar of the inn dumping his ale on the dwarf. The dwarf choose not to respond with violence but asked for an apology. Which the patron refused to give. After the confrontation the dwarf was put into the local jail without any explanation as to why. All of the party that was rooming with the dwarf were told to leave the town.

Meanwhile, two of our party were at the local temple of Tempus and had no idea what was going on. But as they left the temple they spotted the dwarf being escorted to jail. One of the members went to ask why he was being taken to jail at which point the town guard ordered that party member to leave town. To prevent starting a fight he did so.

Myself I had left the party to go to the temple of Torm to try to get some answers. I ended up finding out about the dwarven clan from the temple. I also decided to stay the night so that I could talk to the magistrate in the morn.

Anyway with me gone the others met up just outside the gates of the town. Where the character that saw the dwarf being taken to jail mentioned it. He then stated that he had asked the authorities why but was then told to leave town. Then without warning our leader punched him in the mouth with his spiked gauntlet. Surprised the character asked what that was for and was rewarded with another punch to the mouth and told that it was for questioning authority. The town guard at that point ordered the party to stop fighting amongst themselves and go off into the wild to kill each other. But character that was punched attempted to strike back at the leader anyway. That rewarded him with 8 arrows from the town guard that dropped him. One of the clerics of the group healed him and began dragging him off so that the guard wouldn’t finish him off.

During all of this the main bad guy from the overall storyline had successfully cast Dominate Person on another the rogue/ninja of our party. He then ordered him to “Kill the orc.” Unfortunately the character took this to mean that he had to kill the half-orc leader of the party. But I picked up the out and mentioned it to the DM that the leader is not an orc and it did not say that he was “the orc.” The DM agreed with me but as I was not there and not the player involved I could not say anything.

So now we are to the point of later in the night outside the town. The rogue/ninja had decided that he would attempt to kill the orc when it was most advantageous for him to succeed. So he decided that he would attempt a coup de grace when the leader was asleep and used his Ki power for invisibility to get close to the camp. Another of our party can detect thoughts and realized that there was an extra mind in the area and alerted the cleric who cast Detect Evil. Since the rogue/ninja was contemplating murdering the leader he registered as evil and was quickly spotted. The rogue/ninja still attempted to kill the leader. Still pissed about the attack outside the town the other party member decided that now was the time to attack the leader for punching him. The fight did not last long and ended up with the rogue/ninja being knocked out and the other party member still attacking. The leader then decided to coup de grace the rogue/ninja as the cleric was getting ready to shackle him. During that time the other party member was subdued too. That party member’s “brother” had been walking the perimeter and at the sound of fighting came back to the campfire. As he walked up the leader turned around from coup de gracing the rogue/ninja and coup de graced the other party member. Which caused his “brother” to attack and be killed too.

So yes the rogue/ninja and the party member were technically traitors and as paladin of Torm I would be fine with killing them but I don’t think that I would be fine with killing them while they were unconscious. I believe that a paladin would actually probably heal the person at which time the paladin would read off the offenses and then execute the person. And as a traitor it would need to be quick and painful. As hanging and guillotines were considered quick and painless he would not go for either. Instead I believe that he would put a foot or two of steel through the condemns gut. They would bleed out quickly and yet be extremely painful. But I think it would have been great to see what my paladin would do about the rogue/ninja since they quickly figured out that he was not acting normal for him. As for the other party member I think that as a paladin I would agree that he should die but I think that to kill him while unconscious would be to commit murder but to kill him after being read him crimes would be a just execution. As for the “brother” I’m not sure what I would do.

Of course all of this will be determined by how the surviving party members tell me the story of what happened.
Striking from the shadows of my reality.            If you want peace be prepared for war."The truth will set you free, but it'll make you miserable first." - I know who said it but his name would make some people mad and I would rather you think about the quote."Question with boldness the very existence of God, for surely He would rather honest questioning over blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Paladin question 6 years 11 months ago #15

That explains a lot.

Since it was determined the Rogue/Ninja was being dominated, he was not a traitor, anymore than if a giant had drugged him and used him to club your leader. In any fantasy realm where magic is commonplace, he'd be judged not guilty by reason of possession. And I assume your leader knew he was possessed.

And simply asking why an innocent person is being arrested is not a punch-worthy offense in any scenario I can think of. In fact, standing idly by is cowardice and a non-good sin of omission. (Using your leader's logic: you're in a dungeon, meet the boss who commands you to surrender. Clearly he must bow to the "authority" in the domain you've trespassed upon?)

So IMO you have much bigger problems. Your first, in my opinion, is that your current leader is a bully and a murderer, pure and simple. And if everyone else in the group is okay with his behavior, then that's your second problem.

A third is that your DM put your group in a series of situation that appear designed not just challenge, but to torment at least half of your party.

So whatever you decide you should do as a character, I know what I'd decide as a player: find another group. I found myself in a very similar situation when I learned the group and I had different ideas of what was "fun" and appropriate. I was so relieved and happy the night I told them I was gone. But maybe you have a higher tolerance for pain and frustration than I do.

(edit) In short, I think the answer to your original question is "five pounds of flax."
barkley.neo.rr.com -->see my trade thread HERE , my eBay store HERE or my web store HERE
"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte

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Last edit: by Brad Mortensen.

Re: Paladin question 6 years 11 months ago #16

BTW, your current leader's actions as you described them sound Lawful Evil to me, and I don't see how any paladin could support him in any way. In fact I think you'd cease to recognize him as leader because he abdicated his position by committing three murders, and demand he surrender to the nearest temple to for trial. Unless you elected him supreme dictator and not just leader, he had no right to punch anyone and brought a counter-attack upon himself. The guards should have arrested HIM for starting the fight, not shot up the victim for defending himself. And the third member was justified in avenging his murdered brother. And the other party members are, in my opinion, accomplices to murder and should surrender for trial as well.

Yeah, unless I felt like going out in a blaze of fireworks I'd just quit this bunch altogether.
barkley.neo.rr.com -->see my trade thread HERE , my eBay store HERE or my web store HERE
"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte

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