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TOPIC: Politics

Politics 10 years 7 months ago #1

  • jtillots
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<br />But the only way that conservative Republicans win is to scare people. No reasoned arguments. No vision for the future. Just fear-mongering about the way things are now. If they don't spew this crap all the time, how else will they convince people to vote for their side?<br /><br />I also am tired of the name calling and finger pointing. Neither side has a vision for the future. It's sad.<br /><br />And I wish there were some hippies in office. Unfortunately, the only people in office are officials who have been purchased by the rich in this country. We are now an oligarchy and will be for a long time to come unless someone stands up to this crap. <br />

<br /><br />You are right on some of that. Both parties suck (but only one party wants to take the product of my hard work and give it to someone who doesn't want to work). That's why there's a tea party. If it's going to be socialist, I can retire right this minute. I've already worked my fair share and I can collect what I need off of someone else's hard work. Let them be the sucker. Oops wait a minute, in a socialist state, no one works hard and then they run out of the "free" money and go boom boom. Oops. <br /><br />OK, Shrieking Emu, I'm done unless Henwy starts it up again. It's all his fault anyway. Everything mean is his fault. Too bad he's always right. <br />

<br /><br />I figured we could start a topic so that Henwy and others could debate this stuff and the people who don't want to see it can avoid it.<br /><br />You benefit every day from socialist programs. From the roads you drive on to the schools that the children in your community attend, you benefit. Medicare and Medicaid are also socialist programs and right now it's breaking our budget. Insurance companies were allowed to drop people from their plan which forces the government to pick them up on Medicaid. Government medical spending is going sky high while insurance companies made record profits - during a recession. <br /><br />What's also curious is people complain that socializing medicine will mean that people can't choose their own doctors and will have to wait for medical procedures. What's ironic is the current system is doing just that - insurance companies get to dictate what doctors you can use and also refuse to cover necessary medical procedures and people are actually dying while waiting for their insurance companies to agree to pay for their treatment. I fail to see how socializing medicine can make our current system any worse. By the time big insurance companies are through raping all of us for as much money as they can and we are all on Medicaid, the current system will then be socialist by design.<br /><br />And from what I gather from the Tea Party complaints, the biggest issue they have is the stimulus plan. That money didn't go to people who don't want to work. It went to pay banks that are failing due to bad investment choices so that they can pay their CEOs million dollar bonuses. This sounds like corporate welfare which does burn me up. But it's not giving money to poor people, that's for sure.<br /><br />While you may say that the Republicans want to lower taxes, they don't say what programs they want to cut. In order to cut taxes, our federal budget needs to be cut. And the only way to cut the budget enough to counter the taxes cuts is to cut the big programs - Medicare/Medicaid(21% of the national budget), social security (19%), or the military (24%). These three program account for 64% of the federal budget. However, I'm betting no one in the Tea Party wants to talk about cutting any of these three programs or talk about reasonable plans to get Medicare/Medicaid spending under control.<br /><br />Giving money to poor people is not what our government is doing. There is a rising gap between the haves and the have nots. The top 1% of families in the USA have nearly 35% of the wealth and their wealth is growing. While becoming rich by hard work may be the American Dream, I don't think people intended to concentrate the American Dream in the hands of so few families. This concentration of wealth is due largely to the hold that Big Money has over the government. They make sure that the government works to their benefit and do not care about their fellow citizens. They are making their money by controlling Congress - not by working hard. And meantime, families in the lower classes are working harder and harder and failing to make ends meet. Eventually the masses won't have any money and then things will really collapse when people do not have the means to purchase the goods and services of the elite. That's when capitalism will collapse and the American Dream will be no more.<br />

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Re: Politics 10 years 7 months ago #2

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Off topic is the best place to put these comments - thnaks, Jennett!
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Re: Politics 10 years 7 months ago #3

I started to prepare a long winded response to this but dropped it. I think you are right that politics should stay out of here, and your points are reasonably well done. There are effective counterpoints to all of those but thst's all they are. The bottom line is that there are two sides to these arguments, both political parties are on the take, and there are no easy answers. That is not new, and compromise is usually the best resolution. With one party controlling all three seats of government, as has been the case for the past 20 months, you cannot expect anything good to come. I will close it by supporting campaign finance reform so that none of these vultures can get anything from any organization and term limits (two terms max) for everybody in congress and the senate. The difference we have now that we didn't have in past economic downturns is that we are in way way more debt than we ever were before. Regardless of which party is responsible for it, it leaves this country profoundly weaker than it ever has been before and it has to stop, regardless of whose program gets cut. I support the tea party because I believe they will do that.<br />
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Re: Politics 10 years 7 months ago #4

I try to stay out of politics as much as possible because it usually gets people mad at me, lol.  These fewthings though just make me burn.  <br /><br />There are literally thousands of people with no work or have had to take a pay cut.  WHEN is the last time our government officials have taken a pay cut or laid off their support staff?  I think some have forgotten how the majority of us live.  Generally speaking (not all) they are only in it for their own self-interest - I don't care what they say.<br /><br />Health care is out of sight.  Put a cap in insurance costs/fees, get them out of deciding how to treat people (since when does it take THREE DAYS to cure a person that is suicidal?), Lower the cost of medical care.  Make medicine affordable (one prescription for $400.00? - what about those who are on fixed incomes?)  Get business out of politics.
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Re: Politics 10 years 7 months ago #5

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<br />There are literally thousands of people with no work or have had to take a pay cut.  WHEN is the last time our government officials have taken a pay cut or laid off their support staff?  I think some have forgotten how the majority of us live.  Generally speaking (not all) they are only in it for their own self-interest - I don't care what they say.<br />

<br /><br />One of the candidates for Senator here took a pay cut while a state Senator.  She asked her opponent to do the same, and has yet to get an answer.
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Re: Politics 10 years 7 months ago #6

Cool, who were they for what state?  I want to get to know about this person.
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Re: Politics 10 years 7 months ago #7

I fear (and will be watched for saying this) that little will change in this country short of a revolution.  I agree entirely that both parties have become so entrenched that little will change within them, and the system currently allows little room for other parties, with almost no incentive for the entrenched to share any of their power.<br /><br />A revolution need not be violent, but it will be needed regardless of it's manner.  Should we as Americans continue to wait for the right guy/gal to arrive, we will watch the slow decline of our rights and freedoms to the name of "progress" until armed revolution is our only recourse.  We've partically outlawed personal responsibility, having become a nation of finger pointers and armed ourselves with handy excuses.  Parents, take note:  Teach your children to stand up for what's right, before we forget how.  And if you're not a Parent... what's your excuse?  what are you doing to improve this country?
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Re: Politics 10 years 7 months ago #8

<br />While you may say that the Republicans want to lower taxes, they don't say what programs they want to cut. In order to cut taxes, our federal budget needs to be cut. And the only way to cut the budget enough to counter the taxes cuts is to cut the big programs - Medicare/Medicaid(21% of the national budget), social security (19%), or the military (24%). These three program account for 64% of the federal budget. However, I'm betting no one in the Tea Party wants to talk about cutting any of these three programs or talk about reasonable plans to get Medicare/Medicaid spending under control.<br />

<br /><br />you are correct that the rupublicans no longer care about cutting the budget down, they just want to promise tax cuts and pretend they are still the party for small government, just to get elected.  if you want a party that actually wants to make those changes and cut down the budget, start electing libertarians.  then we can actually get some tax cuts because the government wont be spending out of control.<br /><br /><br />

<br />both political parties are on the take, and there are no easy answers.<br />

<br /><br />sure there is, stop electing them.<br /><br />

<br />WHEN is the last time our government officials have taken a pay cut or laid off their support staff?  I think some have forgotten how the majority of us live.  Generally speaking (not all) they are only in it for their own self-interest - I don't care what they say.<br />

<br /><br />unlike the two big parties that want to gain power, libertarians want to eliminate the excess power the government has.  a libertarian congress would not abuse the power the public has entrusted them with, they would start giving up that power...and i would hope they would also cut the pay to the entire congress (i agree that is needed, their salary is far too much incentive to money grubbers...just curious, if the libertarian party made this an official platform point of cutting those salaries if elected, would that sway you at all?).<br /><br /><br />

<br />A revolution need not be violent<br />

<br /><br />exactly!  we vote, that is how we revolt against our government.  by now, you know my suggestion for where to put your vote :)
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Re: Politics 10 years 7 months ago #9

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<br />A revolution need not be violent<br />

<br /><br />exactly!  we vote, that is how we revolt against our government.  by now, you know my suggestion for where to put your vote :)<br />

<br /><br />A revolution can also be economic. Marx talked about the central point of a capitalist society is that the worker no longer owns the means of production. And as more and more wealth gets centralized in fewer and fewer hands, the worker no longer has the means to buy products any more, fewer people are able afford the means of production, big businesses grows, little businesses are squeezed out, and the resulting economic revolution causes the downfall of the capitalist society. According to Marx, this result is unavoidable, and it appears that we are headed right down the path he lays out.<br />

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Re: Politics 10 years 7 months ago #10

My two cents worth... (1.78 cents Canadian)<br /><br />A great deal of the problems in our government is due to corruption.  The corruption is due to the fact that politicians need money to get elected.  Politicians need money to get elected because the electorate allow themselves to be greatly influenced by various media. <br /><br />Therefore, the main culprits in this dysfunctional system is the "please lead me by the nose" electorate.  Nothing will change until money's influence is greatly reduced by a citizenry who realize that they get the leadership their efforts demand.<br /><br /><br /><br />
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Re: Politics 10 years 7 months ago #11

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That's why I support public financing of campaigns - get corporate contributions out of politics.
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Re: Politics 10 years 7 months ago #12

Jeff, I think you are right.  We have met the problem and it is us, just to put a variant on Pogo.  Just a few thoughts to consider.<br /><br />These problems will not go away because they are societal problems that have combined and compounded over years of plenty without thought to years of scarcity. No one administration can be blamed, or any particular congress. Unions, banks, Wall Street, corporations, government, the news media, and individuals all have played a roll in the mess we now enjoy in our economy. Society is to blame if we have to set a blame, which we don't. We need solutions, not the blame game.<br /><br />So what is the problem? Everyone demands his or her piece of the pie now, right now, without working for it, without paying the price. Generally many don't want to get off their a@@ and leave their computer or TV screen to give an honest day's work for a day's pay. Myself included, we are a selfish society that is willing to bend, break, or corrupt any rules to get what we what. Generally those who are in positions of power (in or outside of government) do everything they can to remain in power, collect wealth, enjoy the lusts available, and perpetuate a lifestyle unencumbered by morality or any constraints. That must stop. They must be removed.<br /><br />What do we do about it? There must be a return to the roots of hard work, sacrifice, living within our means, service to others rather than the desensitizing manner in which we treat one another. We must return to a law based society over a society that is developed simply to satisfy our whims. Laws like--nobody "owes" me anything. I need to "work" for what I get. Banks must not be forced to make loans to people who can't afford them on any economic level (rich people take out loans too that shouldn't be allowed because the numbers don't add up). Sadly this process will probably take a generation or more of very difficult living to teach our children a better way than our generations have handled our time here.<br /><br />A wise man once said, "Civilization is thousands of year old, but only one generation deep." We have lost our heritage over the space of a couple of generations. We had better wake up.<br /><br />Politicians, Union Leaders, Corporations, Wall Street, and Individuals (including ourselves) must be held accountable. I wish everyone had their mansion on a hill with a Mercedes, and BMW, and Morgan in the garage, but if I don't have that I need to stop dreaming and coveting, and start working from my mobile home with my Ford Focus to better my life and the life of my family. Entitlements must stop for individuals. Banks that are poorly run need to go out of business. Corporations that are out of touch with demand should fail no matter how big. People who feed on the graft and greed so prevalent in our society need prosecution regardless if they are congressmen, lobbyists, or butchers, bakers, or candlestick makers.<br /><br />Back to basics.<br />
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