TOPIC: 2026 Transmuted Tokens <= Almost Ready for the Printer!

Endgame wrote: More detailed feedback on several tokens.

Ring of the Sacred Circle

Problem Statement
The Ring will boost AC, Saves, and for multiple classes add FOPs, which is additive to the set bonus. This means when added with another Arcanum set item, we're seeing multiple relic items consolidated into a single slot, and are likely pushing the values too high with too small of a slot commitment.

Let's look at Arcanum shirt + Sacred Circle w/ set. We get

+2 melee hit
+2 damage w/ melee and thrown weapons
+2 ranged hit
+5 Ref Save
+5 Fort Save
+5 Will Save
+5 AC
14 HP
+2 FoP
+1 level

In 2 items, we get a level, nearly a legendary cloak, nearly a legendary ring in AC (Rolland's), nearly a legendary ring in ref (Khing's), and the the extra add on in Level, HP, FOP, and hit / damage. These bonuses will be very common going forward and we have to consider the ramifications of giving out lots of Saves, ACs, and FoPs in future runs.

Possible Solution
Cut the CHA bonus from the ring, OR remove the free FoP from the set bonus. That way you still get A FoP, but you don't double up.

Reduce or remove the "bonus" AC and saves from the ring OR reduce or remove the bonus AC and saves from the set.

Possible Power compensation
If the ring loses the bonus AC and Saves, since the rings will be numbered, consider allowing the Ring to get access to Eldrich Sublcasses 1/year. This would be a desirable add to let people who missed the boat on the skull to get access to subclasses.

I think the Ring is at just the right power level, I hope it is left as-is.

Endgame wrote: More detailed feedback on several tokens.

Ring of the Sacred Circle

Problem Statement
The Ring will boost AC, Saves, and for multiple classes add FOPs, which is additive to the set bonus. This means when added with another Arcanum set item, we're seeing multiple relic items consolidated into a single slot, and are likely pushing the values too high with too small of a slot commitment.

Let's look at Arcanum shirt + Sacred Circle w/ set. We get

+2 melee hit
+2 damage w/ melee and thrown weapons
+2 ranged hit
+5 Ref Save
+5 Fort Save
+5 Will Save
+5 AC
14 HP
+2 FoP
+1 level

In 2 items, we get a level, nearly a legendary cloak, nearly a legendary ring in AC (Rolland's), nearly a legendary ring in ref (Khing's), and the the extra add on in Level, HP, FOP, and hit / damage. These bonuses will be very common going forward and we have to consider the ramifications of giving out lots of Saves, ACs, and FoPs in future runs.

Possible Solution
Cut the CHA bonus from the ring, OR remove the free FoP from the set bonus. That way you still get A FoP, but you don't double up.

Reduce or remove the "bonus" AC and saves from the ring OR reduce or remove the bonus AC and saves from the set.

Possible Power compensation
If the ring loses the bonus AC and Saves, since the rings will be numbered, consider allowing the Ring to get access to Eldrich Sublcasses 1/year. This would be a desirable add to let people who missed the boat on the skull to get access to subclasses.

Yikes, being how often I play low CHR characters, I had forgotten how many were so close to getting a 2nd FOP from a CHR boost, let alone the extra one more FOP on top of that granted by the set bonus. Players running with Three FOP are going to be more common at high levels it seems.

I think the Ring is at just the right power level, I hope it is left as-is.

+1

Corey Pressler wrote:

Endgame wrote: More detailed feedback on several tokens.

Ring of the Sacred Circle

Problem Statement
The Ring will boost AC, Saves, and for multiple classes add FOPs, which is additive to the set bonus. This means when added with another Arcanum set item, we're seeing multiple relic items consolidated into a single slot, and are likely pushing the values too high with too small of a slot commitment.

Let's look at Arcanum shirt + Sacred Circle w/ set. We get

+2 melee hit
+2 damage w/ melee and thrown weapons
+2 ranged hit
+5 Ref Save
+5 Fort Save
+5 Will Save
+5 AC
14 HP
+2 FoP
+1 level

In 2 items, we get a level, nearly a legendary cloak, nearly a legendary ring in AC (Rolland's), nearly a legendary ring in ref (Khing's), and the the extra add on in Level, HP, FOP, and hit / damage. These bonuses will be very common going forward and we have to consider the ramifications of giving out lots of Saves, ACs, and FoPs in future runs.

Possible Solution
Cut the CHA bonus from the ring, OR remove the free FoP from the set bonus. That way you still get A FoP, but you don't double up.

Reduce or remove the "bonus" AC and saves from the ring OR reduce or remove the bonus AC and saves from the set.

Possible Power compensation
If the ring loses the bonus AC and Saves, since the rings will be numbered, consider allowing the Ring to get access to Eldrich Sublcasses 1/year. This would be a desirable add to let people who missed the boat on the skull to get access to subclasses.

+1 to all of this.

I've been saying this in previous threads. The Ring is too good. But then add in the set bonus and OMG, all of that is just insane. I'm suprised more people aren't saying anything about this. Maybe they are too focused on the legendary transmuted tokens.

The ring needs to be changed and the set bonus needs to be changed. I've posted before what I think they should be.

+1. Current RotSC and set bonus = broken

Reap wrote: The fun part about Assassin’s Crossbow is the 3x crit. Can we find a way to keep that, even if it is limited to Rogue only?

I would like to upvote this several times over. The assassin’s crossbow is difficult to find for sale and I feel like many rogues would jump on a replacement for it.

Wording on Earcuff is ambiguous. Understanding is that it provides two additional ring slots and limits you to 4 rings total.

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote: More detailed feedback on several tokens.

Ring of the Sacred Circle

Problem Statement
The Ring will boost AC, Saves, and for multiple classes add FOPs, which is additive to the set bonus. This means when added with another Arcanum set item, we're seeing multiple relic items consolidated into a single slot, and are likely pushing the values too high with too small of a slot commitment.

Let's look at Arcanum shirt + Sacred Circle w/ set. We get

+2 melee hit
+2 damage w/ melee and thrown weapons
+2 ranged hit
+5 Ref Save
+5 Fort Save
+5 Will Save
+5 AC
14 HP
+2 FoP
+1 level

In 2 items, we get a level, nearly a legendary cloak, nearly a legendary ring in AC (Rolland's), nearly a legendary ring in ref (Khing's), and the the extra add on in Level, HP, FOP, and hit / damage. These bonuses will be very common going forward and we have to consider the ramifications of giving out lots of Saves, ACs, and FoPs in future runs.

Possible Solution
Cut the CHA bonus from the ring, OR remove the free FoP from the set bonus. That way you still get A FoP, but you don't double up.

Reduce or remove the "bonus" AC and saves from the ring OR reduce or remove the bonus AC and saves from the set.

Possible Power compensation
If the ring loses the bonus AC and Saves, since the rings will be numbered, consider allowing the Ring to get access to Eldrich Sublcasses 1/year. This would be a desirable add to let people who missed the boat on the skull to get access to subclasses.

I think the Ring is at just the right power level, I hope it is left as-is.

It only, -maybe-, isn't too powerful if the set bonus changes dramatically then. If the set bonus were to drop the bonus FoP, the AC, and the Saves at each level, then the stacking isn't quite as over the top.

The Arcanum Ring was always going to run into the problem that the components are just a hodgepodge of abilities. Eldritch at least followed a pattern to some sort of coherent conclusion with the individual tokens.

Arcanum Shirt might make sense, though, looking back at my posts about Arcanum, I pointed out that it didn't need to be +everything and could have been like Dungeonbane where you choose one thing. "Fortunately", Shirt only had four things to worry about and one of those things is irrelevant to most classes.

What I would do to control for power is have Ring choose from the component effects. This will, of course, never happen because it's not grossly overpowered when the reality is that it was obvious that Arcanum would just end up being better than Eldritch. (Almost like that was pointed out years ago on the forums, too.)

For instance:
Choose two at start:
+2 AC
+5 HP
+2 Saves
-2 Melee Damage
+1 INT/WIS/CHA

1st Ring would, of course, in my alternate reality, only give +1 INT/WIS/CHA.

Then, I would have set bonus be actually comparable to Eldritch as well as ditch the +1 level as +1 level is absurdly easy to find in the game already ... if could figure out what sort of identity Arcanum is even supposed to have. Not like Eldritch set had much of a coherent identity, and the set bonus for it is not terribly coherent, but Arcanum sounds magical in a very magical way where AC, saves, HP don't come across as all that magical in a very magical way.

If Arcanum is supposed to have a defensive identity, which is what is happening at the moment, then, sure, can add to AC, saves, HP.

Given my expectations that Arcanum would blow Eldritch out of the water, I'm not really surprised that every Arcanum token has been overpowered and set bonus will be significantly better than Eldritch set bonus.

A problem with Arcanum is that there really isn't much precedent to base power level off of. URs, relics, legendaries, rares, uncommons, commons have lots and lots of history (at this point for the higher end stuff). Arcanum has Eldritch, but Eldritch is a small number of tokens where the power level is wildly variable.

I might run a rare over SRoEC. Always will run Skull in power builds, but it's really just providing +1 damage and pass a Will save in most of my builds. Four Winds is essentially +6 damage, which is hard for anything to compete with. Dungeonbane is what I consider the best value high end token in the game for its versatility and power and low price. RoSP is interesting powerwise, where I rarely feel bad for using the segments in my second, third, fourth, and fifth builds for runs as I didn't bother getting multiple Rods. Yet, as slotless, it's by definition BiS.

I have a hard time imagining any Arcanum being as bad as SRoEC or Skull are. So, will get individually high power token with set bonus that's more than just +1 damage for every additional piece.

Edgez wrote:

Reap wrote: The fun part about Assassin’s Crossbow is the 3x crit. Can we find a way to keep that, even if it is limited to Rogue only?

I would like to upvote this several times over. The assassin’s crossbow is difficult to find for sale and I feel like many rogues would jump on a replacement for it.

I’m still in favor of the 3x for rogue only. I would be fine with stripping the extra damage against undead and such from the current token to help simplify the token.

Also I am sure if the 3x crits for rogue were added to the crossbow some assassins crossbows would make it back in circulation unless there was a very generous alternative transmute path for them.

Thanks for the input all. Some tweaks made.

I need your input on this token. I have decided to go ahead and include the power on the Mark of the Tenets.

BTW, the new Mark slot will have only one socket...so you'll have to pick between the Mark of the Tenets and the Mark of Enlightenment for each run.

I like it!

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the input all. Some tweaks made.

I need your input on this token. I have decided to go ahead and include the power on the Mark of the Tenets. I will leave the Mark of Enlightenment as is -- and its power will be a surprise at Ring Con. It should be more special that way. So we won't be discussing either one of these tokens here in the Forums later. Thanks!

BTW, the new Mark slot will have only one socket...so you'll have to pick between the Mark of the Tenets and the Mark of Enlightenment for each run.

Ian Lee wrote: The Arcanum Ring was always going to run into the problem that the components are just a hodgepodge of abilities. Eldritch at least followed a pattern to some sort of coherent conclusion with the individual tokens.

Arcanum Shirt might make sense, though, looking back at my posts about Arcanum, I pointed out that it didn't need to be +everything and could have been like Dungeonbane where you choose one thing. "Fortunately", Shirt only had four things to worry about and one of those things is irrelevant to most classes.

What I would do to control for power is have Ring choose from the component effects. This will, of course, never happen because it's not grossly overpowered when the reality is that it was obvious that Arcanum would just end up being better than Eldritch. (Almost like that was pointed out years ago on the forums, too.)

For instance:
Choose two at start:
+2 AC
+5 HP
+2 Saves
-2 Melee Damage
+1 INT/WIS/CHA

1st Ring would, of course, in my alternate reality, only give +1 INT/WIS/CHA.

Then, I would have set bonus be actually comparable to Eldritch as well as ditch the +1 level as +1 level is absurdly easy to find in the game already ... if could figure out what sort of identity Arcanum is even supposed to have. Not like Eldritch set had much of a coherent identity, and the set bonus for it is not terribly coherent, but Arcanum sounds magical in a very magical way where AC, saves, HP don't come across as all that magical in a very magical way.

If Arcanum is supposed to have a defensive identity, which is what is happening at the moment, then, sure, can add to AC, saves, HP.

Given my expectations that Arcanum would blow Eldritch out of the water, I'm not really surprised that every Arcanum token has been overpowered and set bonus will be significantly better than Eldritch set bonus.

A problem with Arcanum is that there really isn't much precedent to base power level off of. URs, relics, legendaries, rares, uncommons, commons have lots and lots of history (at this point for the higher end stuff). Arcanum has Eldritch, but Eldritch is a small number of tokens where the power level is wildly variable.

I might run a rare over SRoEC. Always will run Skull in power builds, but it's really just providing +1 damage and pass a Will save in most of my builds. Four Winds is essentially +6 damage, which is hard for anything to compete with. Dungeonbane is what I consider the best value high end token in the game for its versatility and power and low price. RoSP is interesting powerwise, where I rarely feel bad for using the segments in my second, third, fourth, and fifth builds for runs as I didn't bother getting multiple Rods. Yet, as slotless, it's by definition BiS.

I have a hard time imagining any Arcanum being as bad as SRoEC or Skull are. So, will get individually high power token with set bonus that's more than just +1 damage for every additional piece.

Off topic a bit, but SRoEC is one of my favorite all time tokens. I no longer have one, but if I manage to obtain another I will absolutely equip it! I think the Skull is quite nice also, as a slotless token that gives both the Ring Mastery and sub-class ability, in addition to the psychic abilities (which I do think could use some enhancement). I'm surprised you rate them both so low.