TOPIC: Arcanum Set Bonus

Mike Steele wrote:

Scott Kwiker wrote: Jeff, I like the proposed set bonus. Would you consider adding +1 focus as well to the bonus? They are the Arcanum set after all?

+1 Focus would be nice, even if AC had to drop off in response.

At that point you might as well just add a blanket +damage and +healing rather than focus so everyone benefits.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Scott Kwiker wrote: Jeff, I like the proposed set bonus. Would you consider adding +1 focus as well to the bonus? They are the Arcanum set after all?

How about this folks?

2 piece set power: +1 level, +4 HP, +1 to AC & saves, you may equip +1 Figurine of Power

Additional pieces: +1 Focus, +1 to max HP and +1 to AC & saves for each additional piece

I like it more without the focus bonus, for a few reasons:

1. People tend to add saves up to a certain target, not indefinitely (like damage/focus bonuses), so the +saves component of these will implicitly free up other slots and allow people to increase their focus/damage in those locations.

2. Adding focus to these makes this set substantially better for Wizard/Druid/Cleric and to an extent Bard than other classes, which I think would be a large negative based on prior experience:

Prior versions of the Eldrtich Elemental set were notably better for some classes or build types than for others.

This was, in my view, a broadly negative feature of those prior versions that causes a lot of unnecessary frustration and invidious class comparisons.

For top end rarity tokens like these that are aspirational for any build, I think it's best to keep the bonuses as generically useful as possible and not favor some set of classes or build strategy substantially more than others.

3. The Eldrtich Elemental set already adds +spell healing, damage, and polymorph damage - in other words it adds focus.

(It also adds damage to other non-focus stuff.)

Adding focus to the Arcanum set makes for a lot more overlap with the Eldrtich Elemental set.

If there's going to be that much overlap - it might be better to just have the two set bonuses be identical.

+ 1 to this. My thoughts exactly

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Scott Kwiker wrote: Jeff, I like the proposed set bonus. Would you consider adding +1 focus as well to the bonus? They are the Arcanum set after all?

How about this folks?

2 piece set power: +1 level, +4 HP, +1 to AC & saves, you may equip +1 Figurine of Power

Additional pieces: +1 Focus, +1 to max HP and +1 to AC & saves for each additional piece

I like it more without the focus bonus, for a few reasons:

1. People tend to add saves up to a certain target, not indefinitely (like damage/focus bonuses), so the +saves component of these will implicitly free up other slots and allow people to increase their focus/damage in those locations.

2. Adding focus to these makes this set substantially better for Wizard/Druid/Cleric and to an extent Bard than other classes, which I think would be a large negative based on prior experience:

Prior versions of the Eldrtich Elemental set were notably better for some classes or build types than for others.

This was, in my view, a broadly negative feature of those prior versions that causes a lot of unnecessary frustration and invidious class comparisons.

For top end rarity tokens like these that are aspirational for any build, I think it's best to keep the bonuses as generically useful as possible and not favor some set of classes or build strategy substantially more than others.

3. The Eldrtich Elemental set already adds +spell healing, damage, and polymorph damage - in other words it adds focus.

(It also adds damage to other non-focus stuff.)

Adding focus to the Arcanum set makes for a lot more overlap with the Eldrtich Elemental set.

If there's going to be that much overlap - it might be better to just have the two set bonuses be identical.

+ 1 to this. My thoughts exactly

I like that Arcanum includes HP, AC, bonus FoP and Saves, so I'm glad they're not identical.

As a focus user, I am against adding it to the arcanum set.

I would love to see focus on it, but it's just not a good idea imo. Adding more subclass access seems like a no brainer unless there will be some other way in the near future.

2 piece set power: +1 level, +4 HP, +1 to AC & saves, you may equip +1 Figurine of Power

Additional pieces: +1 Focus, +1 to max HP and +1 to AC & saves for each additional piece

Ship it. I love it! I like the defensive tech a lot and would keep that core. The Figurine add meets The Rule of Cool. The +1 Level is sincerely appreciated especially since the Ring is knocking out the Heroism slot. If something needed to be cut I’d cut the +1 Focus, but do like it. Just because it’s cool I like the idea of allowing owners of 3 (not 2) or more items access to play a subclass under the same restrictions as the Skull of Cavadar.

The more I think about it, if we’re going to put something on a set bonus that all classes have access to, but will directly benefit some classes more than others, it should be + Missile Damage instead of Focus.

I don’t really believe that, but if we’re going to be selective…..

Thanks for all the suggestions and thoughts. Let's just stick with the first idea shown below.

2 piece set power: +1 level, +4 HP, +1 to AC & saves, you may equip +1 figurine of power

Additional pieces: +2 to max HP and +1 to AC & saves for each additional piece

Now we just gotta figure out Insight and Enlightenment. Once I have a better feel for the adventures for Ring-Con, we can discuss them. I'd like players to gain these powers at Ring-Con (in cool adventures) that aid them with the coming battle with Count Craven and his minions. The Ten Saints will give aid to those who prove worthy of divine augmentation. Perhaps you can find a proving path through sacred extra-planar mountains that lead you to Enlightenment -- a holy shrine where mortals gain powers needed for great quests.

And for those who gain an induction into the Sacred Circle by collecting five rings of divine prowess, you will be afforded divine Insight should you show the mettle to attain full membership in an organization that serves the Ten Saints directly on the plane of mortals. This Insight will give you great guidance as you face various foes within the corrupted realm of Cravenwood.

More later.

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for all the suggestions and thoughts. Let's just stick with the first idea shown below.

2 piece set power: +1 level, +4 HP, +1 to AC & saves, you may equip +1 figurine of power

Additional pieces: +2 to max HP and +1 to AC & saves for each additional piece

Now we just gotta figure out Insight and Enlightenment. Once I have a better feel for the adventures for Ring-Con, we can discuss them. I'd like players to gain these powers at Ring-Con (in cool adventures) that aid them with the coming battle with Count Craven and his minions. The Ten Saints will give aid to those who prove worthy of divine augmentation. Perhaps you can find a proving path through sacred extra-planar mountains that lead you to Enlightenment -- a holy shrine where mortals gain powers needed for great quests.

And for those who gain an induction into the Sacred Circle by collecting five rings of divine prowess, you will be afforded divine Insight should you show the mettle to attain full membership in an organization that serves the Ten Saints directly on the plane of mortals. This Insight will give you great guidance as you face various foes within the corrupted realm of Cravenwood.

More later.

+1

I was just going to ask about “Insight Power“ for the Mark of the Tenet tattoo. So looking forward to the TD definition of “Insight” and what power will be bestowed by getting inked.

I'm not sure how this mirrors the Eldritch set powers.

With the exception of four classes, Eldritch benefits are:

+1 level
+1/2/3/4 damage

An Eldritch Fighter with three Eldritch is: +1 level, +2 damage.
An Arcanum Fighter with three Arcanum is: +1 level, +1 FoP, +6hp, +2 AC, +2 to three saves.

While Cleric and Druid get a lot more out of Eldritch than Bard and Ranger, is their +6 to heals at three pieces comparable? Maybe those two classes get a similar value to +6hp, +2 AC, +2 to saves. The extra FoP slot should put Arcanum over even the two classes that get max Eldritch value.

The FoP just seems so random. Now, if the +1 level didn't exist, having some two-piece benefit like extra FoP would make more sense to me and avoid the redundancy of +1 level that is so easily attained in the game these days.

Well, anyway, sounds like effects are already settled and maybe even small amounts of damage are just better than anything else can get in this game for enough players to make it comparable or being comparable isn't that important. Pretty much anyone with Eldritch will have Arcanum bonuses, too, so it's really just a player deciding how powerful to be relative to the challenge level, which is true for every build.

I like the latest iteration of the numbers the most. I agree with not having focus, FoP does feel a bit random but not sure what to swap that for. Agree with others that it would be nice if the Ring gave access to Sub classes as I have been playing for a decade and missed the first couple teeth so couldn’t make the Skull and would love to finally be able to play a Subclass.

Some ideas for Insight and Enlightenment.

Insight once per game change the speed of an action from regular speed to instant action. Example using horn of the Valkyrie as an instant action before combat even if the party loses initiative.


Enlightenment. Once per game reuse a once a game action or recast a marked off spell. Basic idea all the things we can only use once a game be it cloak of shadowskin, a spell, figurine, horn….