TOPIC: Safehold I and Mythic Token Ideas => Part Two

I hate to say it but this prices my family out of ever playing Mythic…. Getting to safehold 1 and then getting the three mythic tokens to get around their mythic ability is just to costly for me to make a set for each of us in my family that plays.

I regret starting to make 5 sets of the safehold tokens down to safehold three due to the price being increased from what my expectations were, and the cost of mythic tokens added on top of this is just too much money.

I think Jeff listened to people who have no dog in this fight… people who will never make mythic themselves but encouraged pricing everyone else out of the market.

I think Jeff has forgotten who the intended audience is… people who have no intention of ever playing mythic being too vocal… but having these uber expensive tokens that will never sell for the cost of making them (no way to recoup one’s investment) is just too much to have tied up in a game, no matter how fun and enjoyable it may be.

I will still make one set for myself, but I just can’t justify making the other 4 I need for my entire family’s to play mythic… let alone getting them the three mythic tokens to circumvent the damage.

Hopefully mythic level is harder even if the party is equipping the 3 tokens else why play? Epic is fun as it is, and if Mythic ends up being just as hard as Epic if the party has the 3 tokens defeats the purpose of having Mythic other than bragging rights… but this ends up just being class warfare, “Pay to Play” mythic, only the rich can afford the tokens to play.

No, I am not “rage quitting”, but stating that my family can’t do this… and we were hoping to do so. I will have to play solo when doing mythic without my kids, and they will be very disappointed.

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

edwin wrote: Jeff - I like the ideas you posted and feel that this will allow groups of ten to form to play Mythic and would allow a person that Crafts a Safehold 1 to get Mythic tokens over time. The proposed powers work well since folks won't feel that they made legendary tokens and now regret that choice. People arguing over the value being too low are not ones who currently play Epic consistently and probably have no plans to play Mythic.

One thing that is missing is unique non-materialistic rewards for those surviving Mythic.

Maybe there shouldn't be any special reward for surviving Mythic, beyond the XP and Survivor Pins. That has caused problems in the past. Maybe we'll get people joining pickup groups with extra Safehold I tokens pressuring party members to play Mythic to get the extra rewards. That is behavior we've seen in the past, which resulted in the uncommon completion token being eliminated among other changes.

Assuming mythic was appropriately hard, I was thinking it might be cool to do something like the the first group to clear mythic at each con gets a unique but otherwise unremarkable completion token.

That way you could have something to push for but once the initial push was over there wouldn't be a reason to push pugs to try for it. This entirely hangs on the idea of mythic being truly brutal to the point where even max geared groups couldn't count on the win.

I think extremely rare tokens would be highly desirable and collectible, even with zero game value. Just look at some of the Truecraft and Artisan tokens.

Mike Steele wrote:

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

edwin wrote: Jeff - I like the ideas you posted and feel that this will allow groups of ten to form to play Mythic and would allow a person that Crafts a Safehold 1 to get Mythic tokens over time. The proposed powers work well since folks won't feel that they made legendary tokens and now regret that choice. People arguing over the value being too low are not ones who currently play Epic consistently and probably have no plans to play Mythic.

One thing that is missing is unique non-materialistic rewards for those surviving Mythic.

Maybe there shouldn't be any special reward for surviving Mythic, beyond the XP and Survivor Pins. That has caused problems in the past. Maybe we'll get people joining pickup groups with extra Safehold I tokens pressuring party members to play Mythic to get the extra rewards. That is behavior we've seen in the past, which resulted in the uncommon completion token being eliminated among other changes.

Assuming mythic was appropriately hard, I was thinking it might be cool to do something like the the first group to clear mythic at each con gets a unique but otherwise unremarkable completion token.

That way you could have something to push for but once the initial push was over there wouldn't be a reason to push pugs to try for it. This entirely hangs on the idea of mythic being truly brutal to the point where even max geared groups couldn't count on the win.

I think extremely rare tokens would be highly desirable and collectible, even with zero game value. Just look at some of the Truecraft and Artisan tokens.

Would that be a bad thing if only like the first group to complete mythic each con got it. That group would likely be constructed and happen early in the con. Also only the very vested would likely know or care about such an item.

I know there will always be people sad they missed out but it would be cool to have something people could compete for rather then just participation items.

Mongo wrote: I hate to say it but this prices my family out of ever playing Mythic…. Getting to safehold 1 and then getting the three mythic tokens to get around their mythic ability is just to costly for me to make a set for each of us in my family that plays.

I regret starting to make 5 sets of the safehold tokens down to safehold three due to the price being increased from what my expectations were, and the cost of mythic tokens added on top of this is just too much money.

I think Jeff listened to people who have no dog in this fight… people who will never make mythic themselves but encouraged pricing everyone else out of the market.

I think Jeff has forgotten who the intended audience is… people who have no intention of ever playing mythic being too vocal… but having these uber expensive tokens that will never sell for the cost of making them (no way to recoup one’s investment) is just too much to have tied up in a game, no matter how fun and enjoyable it may be.

I will still make one set for myself, but I just can’t justify making the other 4 I need for my entire family’s to play mythic… let alone getting them the three mythic tokens to circumvent the damage.

Hopefully mythic level is harder even if the party is equipping the 3 tokens else why play? Epic is fun as it is, and if Mythic ends up being just as hard as Epic if the party has the 3 tokens defeats the purpose of having Mythic other than bragging rights… but this ends up just being class warfare, “Pay to Play” mythic, only the rich can afford the tokens to play.

No, I am not “rage quitting”, but stating that my family can’t do this… and we were hoping to do so. I will have to play solo when doing mythic without my kids, and they will be very disappointed.

Legit question, how would you price a typical mythic. I can't imagine you're to far out of the target demographic, and to be honest while I don't know what goes on behind the curtain if your feeling priced out it's probably to expensive to actually get a viably consistent player base going.

Mike Steele wrote: 2) I don't really see the point of Mythic tokens at all if they're only 50% more expensive than Legendary tokens. The jump in cost from Relic to Legendary is significantly more than the jump from Legendary to Mythic. I would recommend the Mythic tokens be significantly more expensive, or they won't really feel that special at all.

Mike,
How much do you think the Mythic Tokens should cost?

It looks like a mythic token value is about $2300 each, and that is on top of doing the Safehold 1’s that are required to even equip one. And the coin of wealth is about $5000.00.

So, just to play a mythic run, and be prepared for whatever mythic token is needed, the three tokens would cost about $6900 PLUS the price of Safehold 1 (I need to go calculate how much that cost).

I have a binder of sharing which I have 10 of each of the TE’s I lend out freely (only to those who are on my runs). And I was doing 5 safehold sets but with the safehold cost going up, I only plan on doing 2…

I have 4 sons who love to play with True Dungeon with me but none of them have the disposable income to equip a player beyond being able to do nightmare. So the balance of cost of tokens to go to Epic has fallen on me. Which means the cost of having 5 sets to go to Mythic is just too costly to have tied up in a game.

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

edwin wrote: Jeff - I like the ideas you posted and feel that this will allow groups of ten to form to play Mythic and would allow a person that Crafts a Safehold 1 to get Mythic tokens over time. The proposed powers work well since folks won't feel that they made legendary tokens and now regret that choice. People arguing over the value being too low are not ones who currently play Epic consistently and probably have no plans to play Mythic.

One thing that is missing is unique non-materialistic rewards for those surviving Mythic.

Maybe there shouldn't be any special reward for surviving Mythic, beyond the XP and Survivor Pins. That has caused problems in the past. Maybe we'll get people joining pickup groups with extra Safehold I tokens pressuring party members to play Mythic to get the extra rewards. That is behavior we've seen in the past, which resulted in the uncommon completion token being eliminated among other changes.

Assuming mythic was appropriately hard, I was thinking it might be cool to do something like the the first group to clear mythic at each con gets a unique but otherwise unremarkable completion token.

That way you could have something to push for but once the initial push was over there wouldn't be a reason to push pugs to try for it. This entirely hangs on the idea of mythic being truly brutal to the point where even max geared groups couldn't count on the win.

I think extremely rare tokens would be highly desirable and collectible, even with zero game value. Just look at some of the Truecraft and Artisan tokens.

Would that be a bad thing if only like the first group to complete mythic each con got it. That group would likely be constructed and happen early in the con. Also only the very vested would likely know or care about such an item.

I know there will always be people sad they missed out but it would be cool to have something people could compete for rather then just participation items.

I'd guess the second group, and subsequent groups, to complete it might be discouraged that they missed out.

While it's clear that you don't need any Mythic tokens to play Mythic difficulty based off of how the original post is worded, it's unclear whether you can play Mythic difficulty without a SH1.

Under this latest, is it true that anyone can play Mythic difficulty (to the point of absurdity like sealed Mythic) and Mythic tokens can be used on any difficulty level?

Ian Lee wrote: Under this latest, is it true that ...Mythic tokens can be used on any difficulty level?

Yes to this part:

Jeff Martin wrote: ...
Mythic tokens should have powers useful in non-Mythic runs – and some only worthwhile during Mythic runs. That way the tokens are always usable by those who spend lots in tokens to get them.
...
Mythic tokens will be usable on any adventure, and they will have a non-Mythic power -- as well as a possible power especially designed to negate a Mythic-level monster's Mythic combat power.

Have we talked about the ability granted by SH1 yet? I’d say stick with having SH1 make all ioun TEs slotless. It avoids the coin of wealth using the nuggets in recipe sticking to old promises and future proofs the token if additional ioun TEs are printed.

If instead of counting as TE beads, the coin of wealth make all TE beads slotless, then you’re also forward thinking for future TEs. You could then go forward alternating between TE iouns and TE beads until the end of time.

Mongo wrote: So, just to play a mythic run, and be prepared for whatever mythic token is needed, the three tokens would cost about $6900 PLUS the price of Safehold 1 (I need to go calculate how much that cost).

I have calculated it out

At average cost of trade goods at auctions this year, it'd be about $4,900 to go from no Safeholds to Safehold I.

Coin of Wealth would set you back about $4,750 - almost as much as the Safeholds!

Getting the remaining 4 Mythic tokens would run you a grand total of $13,900 or so.

Put it all together and you have around $23,500 in value for a single character fully equipped for Mythic.

This isn't counting the henchmen (minions? whatever). They'll run you another $1,800 for a full entourage.

Let's just call this $25,000 for simplicity.

To put this in perspective of another hobby, here is a dream setup for a Canon camera system that many working pros would envy:
www.bhphotovideo.com/find/wishlist.jsp#/8db554b3086775eeceda671c54420b6d/marcques-safehold-comparison-wish-list

Grizwald wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: 2) I don't really see the point of Mythic tokens at all if they're only 50% more expensive than Legendary tokens. The jump in cost from Relic to Legendary is significantly more than the jump from Legendary to Mythic. I would recommend the Mythic tokens be significantly more expensive, or they won't really feel that special at all.

Mike,
How much do you think the Mythic Tokens should cost?

I think the CoW seems about right. Perhaps they should all be about that cost.