TOPIC: 2025 Ultra Rare Tokens

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: DK helm being better for 4 or 5 classes is not close to Thors mug being better for.most or all.

Please make Thors +3, everyone will still get it.

I love more Viper strike

Edit: please reprint stu's

Quantify better though… The DK Helm is somewhere between Blessed Redoubt and Pern’s in power level, and those were class restricted.

The DK shield, which is class restricted offers:
+1/+2 hit
+1/+2 damage
+2 AC
And a likely set bonus of 2 retribution damage

Compared to on Thor’ Mug of Melee:
+2 hit
+2 damage

My point is that the DK set doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it is pushing slots to what was a relic level, and future items in the slot should be better. So while I agree that the Helm doesn’t directly impact the Mug the fact that we continue to push a set with outsized stat bonuses does (particularly when that set has an item that of anything implies the Mug is underpowered).

OrionW wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: DK helm being better for 4 or 5 classes is not close to Thors mug being better for.most or all.

Please make Thors +3, everyone will still get it.

I love more Viper strike

Edit: please reprint stu's

Quantify better though… The DK Helm is somewhere between Blessed Redoubt and Pern’s in power level, and those were class restricted.

The DK shield, which is class restricted offers:
+1/+2 hit
+1/+2 damage
+2 AC
And a likely set bonus of 2 retribution damage

Compared to on Thor’ Mug of Melee:
+2 hit
+2 damage

My point is that the DK set doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it is pushing slots to what was a relic level, and future items in the slot should be better. So while I agree that the Helm doesn’t directly impact the Mug the fact that we continue to push a set with outsized stat bonuses does (particularly when that set has an item that of anything implies the Mug is underpowered).

lol, what equation do you use to establish power level like that? Let me guess, crown of might is also a relic in that math?

If you are building toward AC, then DK helm is irrelevant. If you’re building toward melee offense, you’re already using crown of might (available to all) or Cranston’s.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: DK helm being better for 4 or 5 classes is not close to Thors mug being better for.most or all.

Please make Thors +3, everyone will still get it.

I love more Viper strike

Edit: please reprint stu's

Stu's +3 Handy Stein? It doesn't seem like a great reprint candidate, it's available on the secondary market in the $80 range.

OrionW wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: DK helm being better for 4 or 5 classes is not close to Thors mug being better for.most or all.

Please make Thors +3, everyone will still get it.

I love more Viper strike

Edit: please reprint stu's

Quantify better though… The DK Helm is somewhere between Blessed Redoubt and Pern’s in power level, and those were class restricted.

The DK shield, which is class restricted offers:
+1/+2 hit
+1/+2 damage
+2 AC
And a likely set bonus of 2 retribution damage

Compared to on Thor’ Mug of Melee:
+2 hit
+2 damage

My point is that the DK set doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it is pushing slots to what was a relic level, and future items in the slot should be better. So while I agree that the Helm doesn’t directly impact the Mug the fact that we continue to push a set with outsized stat bonuses does (particularly when that set has an item that of anything implies the Mug is underpowered).

You realize that Thor's Mug is straight 4 melee damage? Not +4 strength. No bonus to hit.

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: DK helm being better for 4 or 5 classes is not close to Thors mug being better for.most or all.

Please make Thors +3, everyone will still get it.

I love more Viper strike

Edit: please reprint stu's

Stu's +3 Handy Stein? It doesn't seem like a great reprint candidate, it's available on the secondary market in the $80 range.

He means Stu-Pendous pendant, rather than the proposed +4 STR & +3 DEX neck slot UR.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: DK helm being better for 4 or 5 classes is not close to Thors mug being better for.most or all.

Please make Thors +3, everyone will still get it.

I love more Viper strike

Edit: please reprint stu's

Stu's +3 Handy Stein? It doesn't seem like a great reprint candidate, it's available on the secondary market in the $80 range.

He means Stu-Pendous pendant, rather than the proposed +4 STR & +3 DEX neck slot UR.

Gotcha. I'm 100% in agreement with that, I don't like how this token obsolete's Stu's. It should be different enough that there is a choice between the two instead of being clearly better and obsoleting Stu's.

Neck Str/Dex/Con has been done to death.

Number of neck tokens that increase Int = 0.

Number of neck tokens that increase Wis = 0.

Number of neck tokens that increase Cha = 0.

Almost like could do Brisingamen in this year given that it's the most famous necklace in Norse myth with bonus to Charisma at a minimum and maybe the others or maybe just Charisma plus some other special like saves.

Ian Lee wrote: Neck Str/Dex/Con has been done to death.

Number of neck tokens that increase Int = 0.

Number of neck tokens that increase Wis = 0.

Number of neck tokens that increase Cha = 0.

Almost like could do Brisingamen in this year given that it's the most famous necklace in Norse myth with bonus to Charisma at a minimum and maybe the others or maybe just Charisma plus some other special like saves.

I love the idea of a Brisingamen token, whatever it does it would be a great tip of the hat to the underlying mythology so +1.

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: DK helm being better for 4 or 5 classes is not close to Thors mug being better for.most or all.

Please make Thors +3, everyone will still get it.

I love more Viper strike

Edit: please reprint stu's

Quantify better though… The DK Helm is somewhere between Blessed Redoubt and Pern’s in power level, and those were class restricted.

The DK shield, which is class restricted offers:
+1/+2 hit
+1/+2 damage
+2 AC
And a likely set bonus of 2 retribution damage

Compared to on Thor’ Mug of Melee:
+2 hit
+2 damage

My point is that the DK set doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it is pushing slots to what was a relic level, and future items in the slot should be better. So while I agree that the Helm doesn’t directly impact the Mug the fact that we continue to push a set with outsized stat bonuses does (particularly when that set has an item that of anything implies the Mug is underpowered).

lol, what equation do you use to establish power level like that? Let me guess, crown of might is also a relic in that math?

If you are building toward AC, then DK helm is irrelevant. If you’re building toward melee offense, you’re already using crown of might (available to all) or Cranston’s.

Last I checked the Crown of Might was noticeably less powerful than the DK Helm. All I am asking is that you try to be consistent in your arguments. It feels like we are going to go through this again in a few years when we see a pure +strength helm; which is fine, because the DK Helm is not the end all be all of UR helm design.

OrionW wrote: Last I checked the Crown of Might was noticeably less powerful than the DK Helm. All I am asking is that you try to be consistent in your arguments. It feels like we are going to go through this again in a few years when we see a pure +strength helm; which is fine, because the DK Helm is not the end all be all of UR helm design.

The argument is consistent.

1) Class restricted gear should be more powerful than gear available to all.
2) Heavy armor martial gear is a bonus feature for Clerics / Fighters / Paladins

Given 1 and 2, Dk helm should be better than than Crown of Might. Check, it currently is.

In a future design cycle, if we are discussing a pure strength helm, it should either:
1) be class restricted to Clerics / Fighter / Paladin
Or
2) Be lower strength than the class restricted version.

Edit
Note, this same logic was used for Death Knight Shield vs Orb of might last year.

Additionally, it is also being used for DK shield vs Thor's Mug.

Given rules 1 and 2, Dk shield should be better in raw combat stats than Thor's Mug, or the mug should be class restricted to Cleric / Fighters / Paladin. This is why I've been suggesting the mug be +2 damage and a potion effect.

Thanks all! I tweaked a few wordings and made two changes.

The Shield Maiden Bracers are now only usable by Barbarians. I am trying to do class-specific URs for all classes over the next few years, so this seemed like a great fit for Bar-bars.

The Charm of Echoed Taunts is now updated so that only 1 extra Taunt can be used per room.

Thanks for all the feedback!

I

Thanks, Jeff! Those are both great changes!