TOPIC: 2025 Common Tokens

Common

The Sea Raider Boar Armor and Fox Armor do the same thing. There is also no Sea Raider option for monks or wizards. Could the Fox armor be changed to be more monk/wizard friendly?

Overall looks good.

Sea Raider Lynx Armor: Sea Raider Lynx Armor is a bit strange. Normally armor wearable by Barbarians and Rangers is also wearable by Bard and and Rogues (and Druids unless its made of metal). Since this is the best common armor this year, I'd consider knocking Barbarian and Ranger off of this.

Sea Raider Small Axe: Is there room to fit FoB wording similar to +1 Assassin's blade: "Monk: may use w/ Flurry of Blows"? (New players won't know what FoB weapon means).

Sea Raider War Oar: This may accidentally become the best Rogue Melee weapon with the advent of the two handed melee damage boosting gloves at legendary and relic which can be stacked to +14 to damage with two handed weapons with the hand-slot expanding Follower, and the general lack of Rogue two handed weapons. (Similar comments apply to Bards).

Matthew Hayward wrote:
Sea Raider War Oar: This may accidentally become the best Rogue Melee weapon with the advent of the two handed melee damage boosting gloves at legendary and relic which can be stacked to +14 to damage with two handed weapons with the hand-slot expanding Follower, and the general lack of Rogue two handed weapons. (Similar comments apply to Bards).

This feels like a bit of a stretch.

There are already a few two-handed common weapons Rogues can equip, so printing another one doesn't change much.

The +14 damage isn't coming from the weapon, it's coming from Relic and Legendary tokens with nothing else which they can fairly be compared against. The other classes can do this too.

There are several 1-handed Rogue weapons which give +20 damage on a crit amd have better damage wheels nd hit modifiers, which you could equip instead. With a 1-handed weapon and 2 hand slots, you can equip Thor's Mug, Death Knight Gauntlets, and Mithral Gauntlets for an additional +4 to hit and +8 to damage, in addition to the better damage wheel and hit modifier and extra 20 damage on a crit.

Iross wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
Sea Raider War Oar: This may accidentally become the best Rogue Melee weapon with the advent of the two handed melee damage boosting gloves at legendary and relic which can be stacked to +14 to damage with two handed weapons with the hand-slot expanding Follower, and the general lack of Rogue two handed weapons. (Similar comments apply to Bards).

This feels like a bit of a stretch.

There are already a few two-handed common weapons Rogues can equip, so printing another one doesn't change much.

The +14 damage isn't coming from the weapon, it's coming from Relic and Legendary tokens with nothing else which they can fairly be compared against. The other classes can do this too.

There are several 1-handed Rogue weapons which give +20 damage on a crit amd have better damage wheels nd hit modifiers, which you could equip instead. With a 1-handed weapon and 2 hand slots, you can equip Thor's Mug, Death Knight Gauntlets, and Mithral Gauntlets for an additional +4 to hit and +8 to damage, in addition to the better damage wheel and hit modifier and extra 20 damage on a crit.

It probably doesn't matter, but then on the other hand, if it doesn't matter, then why does anyone care that much if Rogues are included on this token.

Rogues almost never get two handed melee weapons. I think one could argue their inclusion on past ones was probably an error or oversight, or a result of the unusual "sling staff" design where rogues are sometimes included on two handed ranged weapons.

I don't see any good reason to perpetuate this, and I think it's valid to point out that some Rogues may be better off with:

+14 damage and this weapon (relic and legendary two handed boosters and their follower slot)

as compared with

+4 to hit and +8 to damage and another weapon (two +4 STR hand slot items, their follower, and an offhand Thor's Mug)

"Other classes can do it" is not compelling to me, because other classes have a long and sustained history of wielding two handed weapons dating back to the very first years of TD with continued support at a variety of rarities - not 2-3 oddball commons.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Iross wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
Sea Raider War Oar: This may accidentally become the best Rogue Melee weapon with the advent of the two handed melee damage boosting gloves at legendary and relic which can be stacked to +14 to damage with two handed weapons with the hand-slot expanding Follower, and the general lack of Rogue two handed weapons. (Similar comments apply to Bards).

This feels like a bit of a stretch.

There are already a few two-handed common weapons Rogues can equip, so printing another one doesn't change much.

The +14 damage isn't coming from the weapon, it's coming from Relic and Legendary tokens with nothing else which they can fairly be compared against. The other classes can do this too.

There are several 1-handed Rogue weapons which give +20 damage on a crit amd have better damage wheels nd hit modifiers, which you could equip instead. With a 1-handed weapon and 2 hand slots, you can equip Thor's Mug, Death Knight Gauntlets, and Mithral Gauntlets for an additional +4 to hit and +8 to damage, in addition to the better damage wheel and hit modifier and extra 20 damage on a crit.

It probably doesn't matter, but then on the other hand, if it doesn't matter, then why does anyone care that much if Rogues are included on this token.

Rogues almost never get two handed melee weapons. I think one could argue their inclusion on past ones was probably an error or oversight, or a result of the unusual "sling staff" design where rogues are sometimes included on two handed ranged weapons.

I don't see any good reason to perpetuate this, and I think it's valid to point out that some Rogues may be better off with:

+14 damage and this weapon (relic and legendary two handed boosters and their follower slot)

as compared with

+4 to hit and +8 to damage and another weapon (two +4 STR hand slot items, their follower, and an offhand Thor's Mug)

"Other classes can do it" is not compelling to me, because other classes have a long and sustained history of wielding two handed weapons dating back to the very first years of TD with continued support at a variety of rarities - not 2-3 oddball commons.

I will use Asher's +5 Viper Strike Fang as a fair comparison since you are boosting the Oar with Legendary gloves.

Asher's has an average damage wheel of 9 and a +5 hit modifier, not including the Viper Strike set bonus as that requires other slots.

Adding 2x gauntlets and the mug gets Asher's up to 17 average damage and +9 to hit.

The Oar with Legendary and Relic gloves plus a Enchanter's Whetstone gets you 18.5 average damage with +1 to hit.

There are multiple better weapons at higher rarities which let you get much better hit bonuses than +1. If people really want to build a Rogue which sneaks up and whacks people with an Oar, I can't see much reason to not let them.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Overall looks good.

Sea Raider Lynx Armor: Sea Raider Lynx Armor is a bit strange. Normally armor wearable by Barbarians and Rangers is also wearable by Bard and and Rogues (and Druids unless its made of metal). Since this is the best common armor this year, I'd consider knocking Barbarian and Ranger off of this.

Sea Raider Small Axe: Is there room to fit FoB wording similar to +1 Assassin's blade: "Monk: may use w/ Flurry of Blows"? (New players won't know what FoB weapon means).

Sea Raider War Oar: This may accidentally become the best Rogue Melee weapon with the advent of the two handed melee damage boosting gloves at legendary and relic which can be stacked to +14 to damage with two handed weapons with the hand-slot expanding Follower, and the general lack of Rogue two handed weapons. (Similar comments apply to Bards).

Thanks. Added Druid to armor so it matches 2024 Dire Beetle Armor. Add better FoB wording.