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TOPIC: 2025 Ultra Rare Tokens

2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #25

  • Impy
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Death Knight Helm: I'd prefer we leave this as it, I think its a perfectly balanced item for our armor classes. If people want a barbarian head gear then I say we handle that another year and make it a fun barbarian themed UR.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #26

Amulet of Folkvagnr: I'd just reprint Stu-Pendous Pendant. If not, I'd make this not strictly better than Stu-Pendous Pendant, something like: +2 STR/+4 DEX, +4 STR/+2 DEX, +3 STR/+2 DEX/+1 CON

Earcuff of the Cabal: It's fine if not, but should Monks be allowed on this, as they can use Mystic Staves?

Nightsahde's Grim Gloves: This token just feels troubled. Now I think it might be too weak to be desirable. Maybe this could bypass crit immunity on the attack it is used for as well?

Picc's Grindstone: Last comment I'll make on this: I don't like slotless, no drawback, good for everyone power creep like this. I won't buy this, or tokens like this. (I got rid of my Goblet of Toasting for the same reasons). I think it's a slightly different story for transmuted tokens, at least they do the community good of increasing demand for trade goods.

Shield Maiden Bracers: Rangers can use neither two handed melee weapons nor shields, and shouldn't be able to use this token.

Monks, Rogues, and Wizards who can't use shields should probably also be excluded.

Thor's Mug of Melee: There is no real reason to prevent Wizard's from using this token, they can use the rare +2 damage offhand melee mug, and the rare +2 to hit offhand melee horn, and the Ultra Rare offhand Orb of Might.

I guess there is some thematic reason of Thor having enmity with Loki who is more of a caster. If that's the reason then fine.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #27

I'm definitely not a supporter of the current version of Thor's Holy Symbol. There hasn't been a functional reprint of Pelor's yet and a flat damage bonus to weapons and ranged doesn't fit a holy symbol well.

Because blissward is out there and because a good 30%+ of every creature we face are undead or evil outsiders, double damage on turn is the best way to go. If you want to make it more powerful, have it be x2 damage on turning and 1/game may use turn against any non-good creature as shock damage.

Fred
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #28

Fred K wrote: How about Taunted target may ONLY attack the dwarf fighter - area effect attacks impact just the dwarf but for x2 damage?


Controlling a monsters whole turn with no save or slide is probably too powerful full stop. Once you get ~3 such effects in the game the players can control the boss monster's entire fight.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #29

Fred K wrote:
It is unclear how Thor's mug would apply to monks? Rangers can't use it but it looks like Monks can. There is no damage wheel so that's confusing. Perhaps exclude monks as well?

Fred


The exact same way as tokens like this always have? They get +4 melee damage on the party card and can't use FoB attacks anymore.

See: tokendb.com/token/brawlers-mug-rare/
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #30

Impy wrote: Amulet of Folkavngr: Technically creep when compared to Stu-pendous Pendant, but also given other items such as Medallion of Sweet Woods, and Medallion of Valhalla, I think this keeps consistent with the recent years of what stats in necklace should be. Creep occurred, but it occurred years ago and this is now and adjustment to a past token. Looks good to me, since we can't reverse creep at this point.


Not all stats are the same.

Historically STR has been more desirable than either DEX or CON, and DEX has usually been more desirable than CON.

DEX seems poised to take a big jump in power if the previously discussed rules changes go into effect.

All that to say a +3 STR / +3 DEX item is probably better / more desirable than Medallion of the Sweetwoods, despite having 1 fewer stat point. Certainly a +5 STR item would be more desirable in many builds despite having 2 fewer stat points.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #31

Impy wrote: [

Thor's Mug of Melee: I think this is too strong personally. I'd suggest +2 Damage, 1/game drink a potion without turning it in (uncommon or lower).
If it must be these stats, please consider removing monk, as I think it is unclear how this works with flurry of blows.


There is already a readily available rare that gives +2 damage, and a different one that gives +2 to hit.

+2 damage and can drink any uncommon potion without turning it in, which will include +4 STR Potion Bull's Strength is considerably more powerful than this token is currently. (+2/+4 with Bull's Strength, and the flexibility to do any other potions UC or lower potions instead).
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #32

Endgame wrote:

Impy wrote: Thor's Mug of Melee: I think this is too strong personally. I'd suggest +2 Damage, 1/game drink a potion without turning it in (uncommon or lower).
If it must be these stats, please consider removing monk, as I think it is unclear how this works with flurry of blows.

+1

My additional commentary
Drop Thor's to +2 damage and add a potion drinking kicker to it (It's a mug, it should have some kind of synergy with drinking). Some options would be:

...
2) Drink a common or uncommon potion without turning it in 1/game
...


You think +0/+4 is too much, so instead it should be +2/+4 with via Potion Bull's Strength with upside flexibility to numerous other effects?

There is a rare token that offers +2 to hit in the melee offhand slot. Many builds would rather have +2 to hit than +4 to damage anyway.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #33

Matthew Hayward wrote: +2 damage and can drink any uncommon potion without turning it in, which will include +4 STR Potion Bull's Strength is considerably more powerful than this token is currently. (+2/+4 with Bull's Strength, and the flexibility to do any other potions UC or lower potions instead).

I don't think there is a significant power concern with using a standard action to drink a potion without turning it in, even if Thor's mug has +2 melee damage. It will be most impactful in the odd dungeon where a combat has a buff round.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #34

Holy Symbol of Thor - Greatly prefer one of the previous versions, our cleric barely attacks if it's not a spell or Turn Undead. They usually are casting buffs and healing, and only occasionally attacking. I doubt they would be interested in this. But were excited at the prospect of doubling Turn Undead with some other cool ability. It seems out of flavor for clerics in general.

Picc's Grindstone - Seems like more than one step up from EW, not only did damage go up +1, but now can be used with any weapons including legendaries, spells, pretty much everything. Would like to see it in some kind of slot first off. Then maybe reduced to +1, or only UR weapons or lower, or only melee, or at least change Ranged to Missile. Something to dial it back.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #35

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Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Impy wrote: Thor's Mug of Melee: I think this is too strong personally. I'd suggest +2 Damage, 1/game drink a potion without turning it in (uncommon or lower).
If it must be these stats, please consider removing monk, as I think it is unclear how this works with flurry of blows.

+1

My additional commentary
Drop Thor's to +2 damage and add a potion drinking kicker to it (It's a mug, it should have some kind of synergy with drinking). Some options would be:

...
2) Drink a common or uncommon potion without turning it in 1/game
...


You think +0/+4 is too much, so instead it should be +2/+4 with via Potion Bull's Strength with upside flexibility to numerous other effects?

There is a rare token that offers +2 to hit in the melee offhand slot. Many builds would rather have +2 to hit than +4 to damage anyway.

When I wrote this I forgot about 2024's chalice of chugging. Because I think giving up a standard action to obtain that, or a free action and a slot somewhere else for a drink potion as a free action is a completely fair trade.

Chalice of Chugging being slotless makes me less excited about my idea since there is no cost now, except to the casters
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 3 weeks ago #36

Endgame wrote: Further increasing damage over Brawler's mug may seem like a fine UR path, however, I contend that it's not ideal to have unrestricted access to melee off hand damage in that regard. Ideally the Death Knight Shield should be the pinnacle of UR offhand gear, not something that promptly gets crept AND is available to all classes. If this were just available to Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters, Paladin, it might be less broken giving those classes a choice between AC and STR and raw damage, but even then I wouldn't recommend printing it while DK shield is still in print.


Point for point, to-hit is often more valuable than to-damage.

Death Knight Shield offers +3 STR, which is either +1/+1 or +2/+2 to melee depending on your ending STR, and also +2 AC, and also +1 or +2 to ranged thrown/mighty weapon damage, and also a retaliation damage set bonus.

It's fine that there be a usable-by-most +0/+4 in melee and nothing else token.

It doesn't obsolete DK shield in any way, as you can see from the very, very different stats the two tokens offer.

Also, if you're not getting the DK set bonus, you can swap the DK shield in and out of your build for Shield of the Scholar or something, which is flexibility you don't have with the mug.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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