TOPIC: 2025 Ultra Rare Tokens

Any token that provides for x3 crit each attack is overpowered since wizards can't get a path once per room.

Jeff Martin wrote:
Nightshades Grim Gloves
That's a whole lot of extra modifiers - Can almost certainly drop +2 sneak attack hit and still be a very, very powerful token with 3x crit at 19-20 Agreed. I meant to do that when I expanded the Crit range to 19-20.

If this is being removed from the token, it leaves space for additional text of "(does not stack with other 3x effects)", since these gloves should definitely not be combinable with the Assassin's Crossbow.

The "does 3x damage" text should also be replaced with "crits at 3x damage" to make it clear that the gloves are expanding the crit range and not just tripling the damage as a separate effect.

Will there be a 4 item cabal set bonus?
Would 1/2/3 or 2/3/4 focus be too good for an ear slot,giving up the slot expanders that are either already there, or coming soon?

One way to make the cabal mystic staff bonus more useful would be if a 4 item cabal set bonus allowed a free action mystic staff attack 1/room (a more limited Medallion of Mystic Mouth).

With that said more folks would get mileage out of focus.

Any thoughts on offering a trade-in for +2 Baton / Staff of Focus (+1k gold) for the +2 Rod? It's a trade down in current market value, but the Rod is strictly better so I imagine a crash will be coming to those URs. The +3 relic recipes are OOP, so no side-effect of pulling relic ingredients.

Shield of Attraction - This is a 2008 Tower Shield with an extra Paladin ability. Original had Barbarian, Fighter and Paladin.

• Should we remove the Bard? Yes. How is this minstrel / spell caster supposed to handle a tower shield while slinging songs
• Should we remove the Druid? Yes. Same type of spell-caster logic as Bard. Also, only 2 UR shields Druids are on - Dragonscale (makes sense) and Lucky (intentionally a general appeal set).
• Should we remove Barbarian? Honestly they'll probably remove themselves until the inevitable "wield 2H weapon in 1H" token comes out. Shield Maiden Bracers, . Thank you AAckeret.
• Should we remove Cleric? I don't think so, but debatable.

I want people to have nice things, but the token has serious "everybody gets to have BiS" vibes.

Lequinian wrote:

Should we remove Barbarian? Honestly they'll probably remove themselves until the inevitable "wield 2H weapon in 1H" token comes out.

Please see the Shield Maiden Bracers.

Lequinian wrote: Shield of Attraction - This is a 2008 Tower Shield with an extra Paladin ability. Original had Barbarian, Fighter and Paladin.

• Should we remove the Bard? Yes. How is this minstrel / spell caster supposed to handle a tower shield while slinging songs
• Should we remove the Druid? Yes. Same type of spell-caster logic as Bard. Also, only 2 UR shields Druids are on - Dragonscale (makes sense) and Lucky (intentionally a general appeal set).
• Should we remove Barbarian? Honestly they'll probably remove themselves until the inevitable "wield 2H weapon in 1H" token comes out. Shield Maiden Bracers, . Thank you AAckeret.
• Should we remove Cleric? I don't think so, but debatable.

I want people to have nice things, but the token has serious "everybody gets to have BiS" vibes.

A Druid I think is always going to seek out lucky or scholar over this*, so I don’t see a problem with them being on it from a BiS perspective. The Druid player who is going to benefit is the mid-power Druid who also plays fighter and wants to share the token between builds.

As for Bard I think it should remain, in my opinion, because the alt class card has a taunt.

*actually who knows where Druid is going to end up in a year, but based on historical play styles I still think this is correct. 🤷‍♂️

Nightshade's Grim Gloves
+2 hit with Sneak Attack - this i like, especially since it means i'd be losing +2 hit/dmg with the Death Knight's Gauntlets, but not too overpowered where it gives +2 hit all the time. i do agree with others that it's probably going to be annoying for DM's to only calculate +2 hit on SA vs all attacks.

19-20 slides does x3 dmg - this i like, it gives new rogues the ability to do better damage, but is restricted to 19-20 and does not increase with Raphiel's Necklace. i do feel like it should be restricted to melee though (or at most thrown weapons).

I still feel like the Assassin's Crossbow needs the same 19-20 limitation as they already benefit from being ranged and safely away from retribution effects. But, at the same time it is mostly beneficial with the use of a secondary token that offers expanded crit range which the gloves do not require. I also get it's hard to simply "change" the rules of a token that's been out for years and the only thing we can really do is move forward.

Question: Do the Nightshade's Grim Gloves effects stack if I wear a second pair on my feet?

Krym wrote: Nightshade's Grim Gloves
+2 hit with Sneak Attack - this i like, especially since it means i'd be losing +2 hit/dmg with the Death Knight's Gauntlets, but not too overpowered where it gives +2 hit all the time. i do agree with others that it's probably going to be annoying for DM's to only calculate +2 hit on SA vs all attacks.

19-20 slides does x3 dmg - this i like, it gives new rogues the ability to do better damage, but is restricted to 19-20 and does not increase with Raphiel's Necklace. i do feel like it should be restricted to melee though (or at most thrown weapons).

I still feel like the Assassin's Crossbow needs the same 19-20 limitation as they already benefit from being ranged and safely away from retribution effects. But, at the same time it is mostly beneficial with the use of a secondary token that offers expanded crit range which the gloves do not require. I also get it's hard to simply "change" the rules of a token that's been out for years and the only thing we can really do is move forward.

Question: Do the Nightshade's Grim Gloves effects stack if I wear a second pair on my feet?

I kind of agree, but want to point out how out of step the +2 Death Flail is with these items.
tokendb.com/token/2-death-flail/

It feels like 2 handed fighters and barbarians should get some love if we are expanding more x3 dmg items first, but maybe a satisfyingly awesome barbarian weapon can be a 2025 thing.

I agree that it’s out of step to give rogues the big boost instead of fighter gear. Could always make it fighters + Rogue, and add a note specific to Rogue.

OrionW wrote:

Krym wrote: Nightshade's Grim Gloves
+2 hit with Sneak Attack - this i like, especially since it means i'd be losing +2 hit/dmg with the Death Knight's Gauntlets, but not too overpowered where it gives +2 hit all the time. i do agree with others that it's probably going to be annoying for DM's to only calculate +2 hit on SA vs all attacks.

19-20 slides does x3 dmg - this i like, it gives new rogues the ability to do better damage, but is restricted to 19-20 and does not increase with Raphiel's Necklace. i do feel like it should be restricted to melee though (or at most thrown weapons).

I still feel like the Assassin's Crossbow needs the same 19-20 limitation as they already benefit from being ranged and safely away from retribution effects. But, at the same time it is mostly beneficial with the use of a secondary token that offers expanded crit range which the gloves do not require. I also get it's hard to simply "change" the rules of a token that's been out for years and the only thing we can really do is move forward.

Question: Do the Nightshade's Grim Gloves effects stack if I wear a second pair on my feet?

I kind of agree, but want to point out how out of step the +2 Death Flail is with these items.
tokendb.com/token/2-death-flail/

It feels like 2 handed fighters and barbarians should get some love if we are expanding more x3 dmg items first, but maybe a satisfyingly awesome barbarian weapon can be a 2025 thing.

Well… the gloves are restricted to Rouge only. If it was opened up more it wouldn’t work too much. If it was a 2025 item I still think x 3 would cause issues. I completely agree that 2H melee users need some love but I think 1H do as well. 2H got a huge dmg boost 2024 with Gladiator gloves. 1H was on there but then removed. Lucky Rouge… the gloves also effected Ranged with the Assassins Crossbow + expanded crit + 2x sneak per room I have seen seriously high dmg. Which on one hand is awesome, but 2 sad that 1H got cut out. I do think Melee users need a little loving, 1H more than 2H but I do think if it’s between Rouge crit items vs something for 2H melee… it should go 2H melee 1st.