TOPIC: 2025 Ultra Rare Tokens

Ultra Rare

I still think we should be able to use the Topaz Trillant with the 2025 Trillant. The dmg reduction on the Topaz Trillant is gainable by other IS. The only thing that’s getting cut out is the saves on the Topaz Trillant. If we want to restrict further I would say no more that 2 Trillants at one time. Otherwise the Topaz Trillant is useless.

For Taunt Master Charm, is a monster only considered taunted for a single round? That is my guess based on existing tokens (e.g. Ring of Direct Insults ), but wanted to confirm.

I agree that Trilliant limitation seems arbitrary. Folks are going to equip the one that is useful in the dungeon or default to the one with +2 saves.

In general I like the changes made to the tokens, particularly the Holy Symbol of Selenwa and Thor's mug of Melee.

Edit: While I really like the direction of Thor's mug of Melee as others have pointed out it should probably be +3 or +4 damage and not +5. Brawler's Mug (Rare) was +2 when it was released back in 2011. +4 feels about right to me just because of the long period of time since Brawler's mug was released

Bead Necklace:
Should only be 1 bead, unless the desire is to dramatically outclass prior UR Necks. (If the desire is to obsolete prior UR necks, please note it in the FAQ so we can give up talking about it)

For example:
Bead expander using Stalker bead of Skill = Stu-pendous Pendent
Bead expander using Bead of the Champion = Amulet of the Champion
Bead expander using Stalker Bead of Focus = More focus than any existing UR

Additionally, must take into account non attribute effects such as bead of Guided Strike, or the proposed Bead of Celecia.

Charm of Valkyrie's Kiss
Are there any problems with unlimited rounds to extra attacks? If below zero, can you still activate Mage Powers for spells?

Coin of Temptation
Can all 3 classes use the first rogue box, or do they need to spread them out across the dungeon? If only one can use each rogue box, will there be problems if there are only 2 rogue boxes on a run?

Death Knight Helm
Prior Death Knight Items have given Strength and the set bonus adds retribution damage. Please consider DK Helm with 3 Strength - basically making it a class restricted Crown of Might for a few classes that could really use the strength. Drop barbarian from the token if necessary for balance.

Earcuff of the Cabal
Love it, but other cabal items are pretty hard to track down. Will next year have more cabal items, or maybe there could be room in this set for extra cabal items so people can complete sets?

Holy Symbol of Selenwa
Is the old Greater holy Symbol of Pelor not powerful enough that this needs to creep it? When do the characters heal? Can a cleric turn undead in every room (even non combat ones) to heal the party 3? If healing is a desired theme, perhaps this could be a split healing holy symbol instead of adding anything to turn undead?

Ioun Stone Roby Trilliant
-10 fire damage is a lot - Topaz Trilliant already can dramatically swing the damage dealt in a darkrift room. Would this be better at -5 since fire is a more common damage type than darkrift?

Nightshades Grim Gloves
That's a whole lot of extra modifiers - Can almost certainly drop +2 sneak attack hit and still be a very, very powerful token with 3x crit at 19-20

Picc's Norn Runestone
Redeem at Start, may reuse is unclear, as redeem implies (to me anyway) that it's turned in. Perhaps redeem without turning in, or may reuse, or similar?

Master Taunt Charm
The name is missing something - Perhaps:
Charm of Epic Taunts
Monumental Taunting Charm

Power wise, 1 round of of +hit feels off and adds extra tracking. Perhaps make it a lower value that triggers if the dwarf taunted. Ex:
+2 hit w/ Melee for room after taunting monster

Thor's Mug of Melee
+5 damage is a lot when compared to the 3 str provided by the class limited Death Knight shield. Perhaps limit to fighters / Paladin? Or drop to +2 damage and drink potion as FA, which would merge to rares?

Endgame wrote: Bead Necklace:
Should only be 1 bead, unless the desire is to dramatically outclass prior UR Necks. (If the desire is to obsolete prior UR necks, please note it in the FAQ so we can give up talking about it)

For example:
Bead expander using Stalker bead of Skill = Stu-pendous Pendent
Bead expander using Bead of the Champion = Amulet of the Champion
Bead expander using Stalker Bead of Focus = More focus than any existing UR

Additionally, must take into account non attribute effects such as bead of Guided Strike, or the proposed Bead of Celecia.

How is this outclassing Charm Necklace ?
The charm necklace can provide +10 damage (Bifrost, Winter, Summer)

I get folks really really don't want a bead expander to be a thing, but I think the argument needs to be why you don't want to see a bead expander and not how this item is the wrong power level. The arguments being made don't make sense.

I for one think a bead expander should be a thing, particularly for those of us that want to use the new TEs which are blocking out bead slots.

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote: Bead Necklace:
Should only be 1 bead, unless the desire is to dramatically outclass prior UR Necks. (If the desire is to obsolete prior UR necks, please note it in the FAQ so we can give up talking about it)

For example:
Bead expander using Stalker bead of Skill = Stu-pendous Pendent
Bead expander using Bead of the Champion = Amulet of the Champion
Bead expander using Stalker Bead of Focus = More focus than any existing UR

Additionally, must take into account non attribute effects such as bead of Guided Strike, or the proposed Bead of Celecia.

How is this outclassing Charm Necklace ?
The charm necklace can provide +10 damage (Bifrost, Winter, Summer)

I get folks really really don't want a bead expander to be a thing, but I think the argument needs to be why you don't want to see a bead expander and not how this item is the wrong power level. The arguments being made don't make sense.

I for one think a bead expander should be a thing, particularly for those of us that want to use the new TEs which are blocking out bead slots.

Charm Necklace = Amulet of the Champion using 3 vol charms.

Thanks for letting us comment on the new round!

Bead of Celecia is amazing, that is going to be a must-have token for many classes. It might be enough to tempt me into the first slot enhancer tokens for my group, since three slots will be locked down by Treasure Enhancers.

Death Knight Helm seems ovepowered, especially since is part of a set. I'd recommend something like +1 AC and +8 Retribution or +2 AC and +4 Retribution. As a side note, all of the bonus retribution damage seems like it might cause some real dungeon design problems, because it's getting to where a group could kill boss monsters solely from retribution damage. Are more monsters going to be moving to types of attacks that don't trigger retribution damage as a result of all of this available retribution damage?

Earcuff of the Cabal: Should bonus spell healing be included? There's not much incentive for Clerics to outfit it as is. I like that it is encouraging scroll and mystic staff use.

Holy Symbol: I liked the previous version better, it was much more fun than this. Is there anything to prevent the Cleric from using this to heal the group 3 damage even if there aren't any undead in the room?

Trilliant: I like the limitation of only one Trilliant IS, they are overpowered and allowing them to stack could cause some real problems.

Picc's tribute token is pretty amazing, it is essentially a slotless +1 to hit on all attacks. Are there any attacks that aren't covered by melee and ranged?

Shield Maiden Bracers: The +1 to saves seems unnecessary, being able to wield the shield seems like bonus enough.

Shield of Attraction: Seems overpowered for the Paladin, it grants an awesome ability in addition to the high UR shield AC.

Taunt Master Charm: Is this too limited, in most cases this only grants +3 to hit once per combat, right? I guess when combined with tokens that grant additional taunting it is much better.

Thor's Mug of Melee: The previous versions were much more imaginative and fun. Maybe it could go back to the Loki mug with wording along the lines of "Drink C/U/R potion as FA with effects on other willing player 1/room". Turning into yet another bonus damage token is much less fun than the original design.

I like these designs for the Grim Gloves & Runestone a lot, they both seem much more focused.

Endgame wrote: Picc's Norn Runestone
Redeem at Start, may reuse is unclear, as redeem implies (to me anyway) that it's turned in. Perhaps redeem without turning in, or may reuse, or similar?

Re the wording , do you think either of these would come across clearer?

Picc Runestone +1 to hit w/ Melee & Ranged attacks. (Mark in coaching. Not Consumed.)
Picc's Everstone +1 to hit w/ Melee & Ranged attacks. (Runestone, do not turn in)

I'm assuming Norn was there because that seems to imply reuse in some form on other items.

Super-quick reply; hoping to comment on more things later:

I really appreciate the change to the Nightshade Grim Gloves!

While they won't take full advantage of Raphael's Necklace's amazing Crit range, they still synergize with items which give multiple Sneak Attack chances, and now give entry-level UR Rogues a chance at that sweet 19-20 Crit, in addition to providing the sought-after Triple Damage Crit effect from the Assassin's Crossbow.

Consider this token to be endorsed by the Guildmaster ; )

Picc wrote: I like these designs for the Grim Gloves & Runestone a lot, they both seem much more focused.

Endgame wrote: Picc's Norn Runestone
Redeem at Start, may reuse is unclear, as redeem implies (to me anyway) that it's turned in. Perhaps redeem without turning in, or may reuse, or similar?

Re the wording , do you think either of these would come across clearer?

Picc Runestone +1 to hit w/ Melee & Ranged attacks. (Mark in coaching. Not Consumed.)
Picc's Everstone +1 to hit w/ Melee & Ranged attacks. (Runestone, do not turn in)

I'm assuming Norn was there because that seems to imply reuse in some form on other items.

(Not consumed, show at start)

Bead Necklace seems a bit too strong to me, even in a neck slot given how valuable Beads are at the moment. I think this would still see play if it granted only +2 Beads.

I like the change to Holy Symbol of Selenwa, it removes the risk of losing time between doing both a skill check and a slide, while adding an always useful ability to Turn Undead.

Nightshade's Grim Gloves is definitely a much more appealing token than the previous version, which it needs to be if it's remaining in the hand slot. It might be a bit too good, since it now offers both expanded 3x crit range and the static bonus to hit with Sneak Attacks, but I'm very undecided since it's melee-only, occupies a very important slot, and unlike other tokens is completely blank once your Sneak Attack(s) are used up. The expanded crit range doesn't do anything for players who own the Relic or Legendary necklace either, and melee builds could use a token like this to make them a better build option. I think I like this token more than a reprint of Assassin's Crossbow as it supports a very different build option as a viable alternative.

Picc's Norn Runestone could be changed to give a choice of either +1 to hit or +1 to damage instead of both, and still be an auto-include in every build.

Thor's Mug of Melee could be dropped down in power a bit, since existing R and UR tokens give +2 to hit, damage, or STR. It also seems a bit too good for Rogues when combined with the gloves. +3 damage is probably about right given the lack of class restrictions on it.

Shield of Attraction will make Paladins very, very happy.