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TOPIC: 2024 Rare Token Images < Part Two < NEW BIG NEWS at Post #41

2024 Rare Token Images < Part Two < NEW BIG NEWS at Post #41 1 year 3 months ago #85

dokkaebi wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Allowing a stack is also a stealth nerf to Iktomi's, effectively allowing any Druid (at the Rare level!) to cast while polymorphed so long as they have sufficient copies of a trinket to last each room and sufficient trinkets overall to last the entire dungeon.


I believe that the one form/room combined with Jeff's comments in post #41 cover your concern:

Jeff Martin wrote: Even within the same room, a Trinket may only be used once per game. If for some reason you choose to end the polymorph early, you may not transform back into that creature.


The comment you quoted contradicts the reply in post #67:

Jeff Martin wrote:

dokkaebi wrote: Thank you for all of the clarifications, and the change out of Charm Slot.

Under current rules, a player can bring multiple throwing hammers and use as many as combat rounds allow.

Will Trinkets be limited to one of each named Trinket per adventure? Can a Druid bring 4 Trinket of Trollform tokens and use one per combat?

I could see how the rules already cover this, but thrown weapons operate differently. And since the Trinket is a pseudo-weapon, I thought it'd be nice to get clarification.


There's no slot so you can bring as many as you wish.


Assuming the intention of trinkets is parity with existing Polymorph potions, this statement is consistent: today, you can also do such depolymorphing techniques, so long as you had a stack of Potions and turned each in. The problem is that a stack of trinkets are reusable. With a large enough stack of trinkets, you can replicate the spellcasting power of Iktomi's (or the relic).

Actually, even without spellcasting shenanigans, Trollform as presented will massively devalue all existing reusable Polymorph tokens. Look at how it compares:

2009 UR Coronet of the Arch-Druid : average damage 9.5
Trollform + 2021 standard pack rare Crown of Focus : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 UR Shaman's Belt : average damage 9
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Sash of Sinew : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 Relic Shaman’s Greater Necklace : average damage 9.5
2019 Legendary Iktomi's Shaper Necklace : average damage 11
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Amulet of the Wild : average damage 9.33 + 4 (total: 13.33)

Eight standard pack rares (one trinket for each room of a dungeon) occupying the same slots should not be outdamaging a Class Legendary. You could argue Iktomi's gives you flexible damage resistance, but monsters are often resistant if not immune (or even absorb! Lesson of the day: don't fight fire [elemental] with fire [elemental]) to the damage they deal.

On a related note, will the Coronet and Belt be reworked? Removing both the slot and spell cost will help them stand better against future polymorph trinkets.

(Relic and Legendary necks too, will need to be reworked... but as always, let's wait for the class redesigns before dealing with them.)
Cleric main / Druid secondary
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2024 Rare Token Images < Part Two < NEW BIG NEWS at Post #41 1 year 3 months ago #86

Ho-Yi Fung wrote:

dokkaebi wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: Allowing a stack is also a stealth nerf to Iktomi's, effectively allowing any Druid (at the Rare level!) to cast while polymorphed so long as they have sufficient copies of a trinket to last each room and sufficient trinkets overall to last the entire dungeon.


I believe that the one form/room combined with Jeff's comments in post #41 cover your concern:

Jeff Martin wrote: Even within the same room, a Trinket may only be used once per game. If for some reason you choose to end the polymorph early, you may not transform back into that creature.


The comment you quoted contradicts the reply in post #67:

Jeff Martin wrote:

dokkaebi wrote: Thank you for all of the clarifications, and the change out of Charm Slot.

Under current rules, a player can bring multiple throwing hammers and use as many as combat rounds allow.

Will Trinkets be limited to one of each named Trinket per adventure? Can a Druid bring 4 Trinket of Trollform tokens and use one per combat?

I could see how the rules already cover this, but thrown weapons operate differently. And since the Trinket is a pseudo-weapon, I thought it'd be nice to get clarification.


There's no slot so you can bring as many as you wish.


Assuming the intention of trinkets is parity with existing Polymorph potions, this statement is consistent: today, you can also do such depolymorphing techniques, so long as you had a stack of Potions and turned each in. The problem is that a stack of trinkets are reusable. With a large enough stack of trinkets, you can replicate the spellcasting power of Iktomi's (or the relic).

Actually, even without spellcasting shenanigans, Trollform as presented will massively devalue all existing reusable Polymorph tokens. Look at how it compares:

2009 UR Coronet of the Arch-Druid : average damage 9.5
Trollform + 2021 standard pack rare Crown of Focus : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 UR Shaman's Belt : average damage 9
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Sash of Sinew : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 Relic Shaman’s Greater Necklace : average damage 9.5
2019 Legendary Iktomi's Shaper Necklace : average damage 11
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Amulet of the Wild : average damage 9.33 + 4 (total: 13.33)

Eight standard pack rares (one trinket for each room of a dungeon) occupying the same slots should not be outdamaging a Class Legendary. You could argue Iktomi's gives you flexible damage resistance, but monsters are often resistant if not immune (or even absorb! Lesson of the day: don't fight fire [elemental] with fire [elemental]) to the damage they deal.

On a related note, will the Coronet and Belt be reworked? Removing both the slot and spell cost will help them stand better against future polymorph trinkets.

(Relic and Legendary necks too, will need to be reworked... but as always, let's wait for the class redesigns before dealing with them.)


tokendb.com/token/potion-polymorph-sea-troll/

The Trinket is not a huge increase from this Potion.
Token Conjurer
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Nerdomancer
Author of the never-to-be-released "The Secret of Trees"
Last edit: by Jeff Martin.
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