Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: 2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please!

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #25

BeLinda Mathie wrote:

Marc D wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: But then I realized that the Paths to Enlightenment also transmute into a "Mark", so that makes it even worse if I'm understanding everything correctly. Anybody who buys $2ks will get a Mark of the Tenants but that won't be useful for anybody who is going for a Mark of Enlightenment. It seems contradictory.


I'd push back a bit on this. You are correct from the perspective of an individual buyer. But, from the perspective of a group who pools together for an $8k order, you now have:
- One person who will get a Mark of Enlightenment
- Four people who will get Mark of the Tenets
- 8 people who can go to Ring Con (assuming they bought the previous rings)

It also provides a path for those of us who may not spend $2500-$3000 (total) for Enlightenment and the special event, but might spend $150-$300 (total) for Tenet.


Although I am loath to disagree with Kirk, I find myself in Marc D's camp on this. As long as there's only one Mark/Tattoo slot, I think it's fine to offer something for both the $8k buyer and the $2k buyer. I'm the quartermaster for my group. I hope to make 2 Marks of Enlightenment, one for me and one for my husband. I'll use any Mark of the X Tenet tokens for other members of our party. They'll get something nice (but presumably not as nice as the Mark of Enlightenment) for their Mark/Tattoo slot. Buyers of $8k packages who don't have a party/don't want to subsidize party members can always sell their Mart of the X Tenet tokens. People who spend $2k/year on tokens will get Marks of the X Tenet, but I could also see demand for them for people who just buy tokens from auctions/on the secondhand market.


Both of you make convincing arguments. I retract my previous concerns. Having two marks makes sense to me now, where it didn't make sense to me previously.
My online token shop: www.tdtavern.com

We buy, sell, and trade True Dungeon tokens. We also have a convenient consignment program where you can sell your own tokens.
Last edit: by Kirk Bauer.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #26

I just wanted to pop in and say that after sharing these tokens with my group, they were excited about the Mark of the Tenet. We're a mid tier group where the 8K Enlightenment stuff is out of our reach, but getting a lesser version of a Mark from the 2K orders is a fun way to participate ^^
Turned into adventurer jerky by Smoak in 2010
Proudly part of first group to survive Felurian's Feast at GHC 2021
My group's 10-packs are blessed by Grunnel
~Virtual Dungeon Master~
The topic has been locked.

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #27

Tyraël The Just wrote: I’m against limiting slotless items that each player can use. I have spent a long time collecting any that could help and even those that couldn’t for my current class just Incase I shifted to a different one. Limiting slotless will have made my last decade of collecting a complete waste.


Totally agree. While it seems absurd to be carrying 4 lamps and 5 horns and a bookshelf of tomes, they weren't limited in the past, and imposing restrictions retroactively doesn't really seem fair to people who have been collecting slotless items for years. Mostly, I think slotless items should be VERY situation-specific, like the Lamp of the Marid or the Minotaur Horn of Alert. Sure, take a whole pile - you may only need them in one dungeon out of four, or at least they don't have any major effect. Introducing slotless items that affect combat stats seems like a bad idea (yeah, I know - some already do). I also agree that introducing endless new slots is getting out of hand.

I don't even disagree with introducing a Limited category of essentially slotless items. You get, say 3 Limited items. It would only apply to future items that are produced as Limited items. They wouldn't have any particular slot, but you'd still have to make choices in your build. There could (and, of course would) be Limited slot expanders a couple of years later. Maybe ALL new items that don't currently have a slot should be relegated to the Limited category.
Last edit: by Jason Brown.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #28

I am starting to come around to the idea of limited slot items, provided that older items remain as they are. It is an interesting way to have very desirable items without necessarily leading to power creep. While at the same time letting newer players catch up a bit which I think is important to the long term health of the game.

In my mind a limited item would be one level more powerful than the other items of its rarity. So for example a starting player might equip a limited rare charm, which would be equivalent to a UR charm, but only allow one charm to be equipped. They could use it until they collect more charms. Maybe the UBER wizard spell book, should we ever see it, could be limited and as a result be more powerful than a normal UR knowing that you couldn't use Greger's or Carter's tomes. The problem I see with this is that it steps a bit on the idea that more powerful items always come from transmuting, but as long as it was used sparingly I am not sure that is a big issue.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #29

I think that going forward, fewer slotless items would probably be good.

However, I would not retroactively apply this to existing tokens. Rod Segments, Teeth for people who don't have Cavadar Skulls, Harlax Lamps, Auri's Candle, Badge of Nobility, it's all way too much to cut off at this point.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #30

  • Impy
  • Impy's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 8th Level
  • Supporter
  • Just a little Imp looking to surive out here
  • Posts: 153
I think limited items going forward is a great compromise to the people who have them and more interesting builds going forward
The topic has been locked.

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #31

AAckeret wrote: I think that going forward, fewer slotless items would probably be good.

However, I would not retroactively apply this to existing tokens. Rod Segments, Teeth for people who don't have Cavadar Skulls, Harlax Lamps, Auri's Candle, Badge of Nobility, it's all way too much to cut off at this point.


I wasn't suggesting that we add a limit to any of those except maybe lamps. I was suggesting that we convert a select few slotless tokens to "limited". Really my top choice to convert to limited would be Tomes. But there is no reason my suggestion has to affect any older tokens. That wasn't the main point.

The main point was to slow down slot creep (new slots) and slotless creep, which is a big part of power creep. With a new class of "limited" tokens, Jeff could have more room to create creative new tokens without needing so many new slots, slot expanders, etc.

Imagine two different futures. One where there are 50 different slotless URs and top tier players equip all of them. The other where there are 50 different "limited" URs, spread between 10 types (tomes, lamps, etc). Players can choose from many options but could have (by default) one or two of each and no more than maybe 5 total. Same number of tokens created, less power creep, more build diversity, more choices for the players.
My online token shop: www.tdtavern.com

We buy, sell, and trade True Dungeon tokens. We also have a convenient consignment program where you can sell your own tokens.
Last edit: by Kirk Bauer.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #32

Jason Brown wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote: I’m against limiting slotless items that each player can use. I have spent a long time collecting any that could help and even those that couldn’t for my current class just Incase I shifted to a different one. Limiting slotless will have made my last decade of collecting a complete waste.


Totally agree. While it seems absurd to be carrying 4 lamps and 5 horns and a bookshelf of tomes, they weren't limited in the past, and imposing restrictions retroactively doesn't really seem fair to people who have been collecting slotless items for years. Mostly, I think slotless items should be VERY situation-specific, like the Lamp of the Marid or the Minotaur Horn of Alert. Sure, take a whole pile - you may only need them in one dungeon out of four, or at least they don't have any major effect. Introducing slotless items that affect combat stats seems like a bad idea (yeah, I know - some already do). I also agree that introducing endless new slots is getting out of hand.

I don't even disagree with introducing a Limited category of essentially slotless items. You get, say 3 Limited items. It would only apply to future items that are produced as Limited items. They wouldn't have any particular slot, but you'd still have to make choices in your build. There could (and, of course would) be Limited slot expanders a couple of years later. Maybe ALL new items that don't currently have a slot should be relegated to the Limited category.


I thought about it just going forward but then what about the future players? They have limited factors imposed on their builds while older players who have collected many slotless can have theres. I’m kinda not sure a good way to go. I don’t want those I have gotten to be rendered useless but also feel if limited start it will give a huge advantage to those who have been here the longest.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #33

Tyraël The Just wrote: I’m against limiting slotless items that each player can use. I have spent a long time collecting any that could help and even those that couldn’t for my current class just Incase I shifted to a different one. Limiting slotless will have made my last decade of collecting a complete waste.


Agreed - it's far to late to limit slotless tokens unless the limit is set at something like 30.

Also, slotless tokens provide one of the few areas where skilled play matters at true dungeon:

* Most tokens just bump up party card stats, which help, but which don't require skill

* Many slotless tokens require you to remember what effects are available and apply them in the heat of the moment in the dungeon, e.g. Kvothe's Bloodless, Ghost Accelerator, Lamp of the Efreeti

This offers a way for players to exhibit skill in the dungeon other than sliding or class based memorization tests.

One of my all time favorite TD memories is using a Flask of Sharing to double the effects of a remove curse effect available by interacting with a bowl of liquid in the hallway of one of the Odin dungeons.

Also, it's just really hard for me to see who benefits from this proposal:

Limits on equippable tokens means less revenue for TD

Limits on equippable tokens means less fun for some players and collectors who like them

Limits on equippable tokens means more fun for some players who... who what? Who does this proposal benefit?
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #34

Kusig wrote:

AAckeret wrote: Regardless of what in game powers Mark of Enlightenment will have, please remember it also has benefits that the Mark of Tenets will not; name personalization on the token, and a side event at Ring Con.


It still should have a power equal to the general cost post event when compared to another token in the same slot at a much cheaper price point.


Maybe it 'should' have power correlated with the cost to transmute - but the Dragon Orbs demonstrate that in no way 'must' it.

I wouldn't assume it will be very different power wise. It could be. There is just precedent for it not being very different.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #35

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote: I’m against limiting slotless items that each player can use. I have spent a long time collecting any that could help and even those that couldn’t for my current class just Incase I shifted to a different one. Limiting slotless will have made my last decade of collecting a complete waste.


Perhaps I wasn't clear -- I'm not suggesting we limit "slotless". I'm suggesting that we re-classify a few specific slotless tokens as "limited" (e.g. tomes) and then limit both the per-type count and total count of those tokens.


Kirk - come on - your proposal limits slotless tokens. The fact that step 1 in your proposal is to change the category of currently slotless tokens to some other category does not change that.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Special Token Images < Feedback Please! 3 months 5 days ago #36

Rob F wrote: ...
Kirk I think this is a great idea! +100! Would help with build diversity, Token design space, and slowing power creep. Hopefully Jeff considers it.


What currently slotless tokens are meaningfully impacting build diversity and power creep?

Say, as compared with, Bead of Guided Strike or the Havoc Rings?
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
The topic has been locked.
Time to create page: 0.191 seconds