TOPIC: Safehold Rules Targeted Feedback on the Safehold V Recipe

Jeff, I think your Safehold II and especially Safehold I costs and recipes are significantly too low. They should be as much above Legendary recipes as Legendary Recipes are above Relics. Maybe Mythic II recipes should be about 3x a Legendary Recipe (ideally it should require a Legendary token and about 2x the ingredients additionally that a Legendary costs). Mythic 1 should be at least double that. The actual Safeholds should also be a lot more expensive to make - maybe instead of a 200/400/600/800/1000 progression it should be 200/400/800/1600/3200.

I think it's OK if it takes years for even top token buyers to get all the Mythic tokens. My concern is that if you leave the recipe costs as low as they are, before long you'll have to add something like an Epic Level above the Mythic level.

Wild that people want $10,000 safeholds per person. I just cannot wrap my head around why this would be good for the game. Mythical Charm of Avarice, costing $10000 for the safehold plus an unknown transmute cost, only to get three bead slots and a treasure over a $1500 CoA. You could buy near 10 CoA for that cost lol

I like the recipes where they are currently, seems like a great multi-year system. If the big spenders want safehold II and safehold I higher, I don't get it but I am also not that target audience. If that goes higher, it just means it more a thing for them and while I am not excited about that, they can have their high costs if they want it.

Flik wrote: Wild that people want $10,000 safeholds per person. I just cannot wrap my head around why this would be good for the game. Mythical Charm of Avarice, costing $10000 for the safehold plus an unknown transmute cost, only to get three bead slots and a treasure over a $1500 CoA. You could buy near 10 CoA for that cost lol

+1

expensive is expected, but let’s not be excessive

OrionW wrote:

Flik wrote: Wild that people want $10,000 safeholds per person. I just cannot wrap my head around why this would be good for the game. Mythical Charm of Avarice, costing $10000 for the safehold plus an unknown transmute cost, only to get three bead slots and a treasure over a $1500 CoA. You could buy near 10 CoA for that cost lol

+1

expensive is expected, but let’s not be excessive

That is wild, I’m still trying to figure a few things out before I can price like that, but I may have gotten swept up in all of the excitement. I really want SH I and to make one of each not just for fun but so I can tweak my Build here or there depending on the dungeon or the encounters. But $10,000 just to build a SH I without adding the cost of getting any other tokens is a high premium. Especially if it only is + 1 treasure. I do know the other benefit is that the mythic Avarice doesn’t have to have a full team to get max. It doesn’t require synergy like the CoA or the CoGF. The cost to make mythic I are going to be astronomical.

I really like the costs of the safeholds themselves. I think it is very solid. You can spend a total of $200, $600, $1200, $2000, or $3000 to get to each level. I think that's great.

As I think about it, I think the Follower is a tad too expensive, and perhaps should be just a bit lower like $500. I think Mythic I is too expensive and should be closer to $1,500. Remember, you spend $3,000 to be able to craft a Mythic I, so I think $2,000/ea on top of that is a bit steep.

Kirk Bauer wrote: I really like the costs of the safeholds themselves. I think it is very solid. You can spend a total of $200, $600, $1200, $2000, or $3000 to get to each level. I think that's great.

As I think about it, I think the Follower is a tad too expensive, and perhaps should be just a bit lower like $500. I think Mythic I is too expensive and should be closer to $1,500. Remember, you spend $3,000 to be able to craft a Mythic I, so I think $2,000/ea on top of that is a bit steep.

Aren't you basically then pricing each Mythic I at about the cost of a Legendary (which I believe average about $1,500 to transmute)? Breaking the $3000 Stronghold cost down by the 10 Mythic tokens you can make just adds $300 each to them. That seems way too low to me. It seems like the starting point of a Mythic Recipe should be a Legendary token, and then add TG and GP on top of that.

Flik wrote: Wild that people want $10,000 safeholds per person. I just cannot wrap my head around why this would be good for the game. Mythical Charm of Avarice, costing $10000 for the safehold plus an unknown transmute cost, only to get three bead slots and a treasure over a $1500 CoA. You could buy near 10 CoA for that cost lol

Where did $10k come from? Are you totalling up the cost of everything to get to the mythic avarice, but then assuming the person gets NOTHING else of benefit? Because that would be a load of crap.

Getting a single mythic is going to be more expensive per token than getting 5 mythics, because that is just how the system works.
So, first of all, if you think any of the level V through II are not worth the money, then argue each of those levels. In order to discuss safehold I fairly, you have to start by assuming the person already has safehold II. At that point, if you think that the cost should be nicer to people who are only chasing a single mythic, then you could ask for a decrease in the safehold cost and maybe increase the cost of each mythic. But if the safehold cost is high enough, you should assume that the player will make all 5 mythics, and hence divide the safehold cost by 5 to get an accurate cost per mythic.

Could we get a clarification if mythic items will include legendaries as part of their cost? This seems logical to me, as they would be the next step in progression.

Rob F wrote: Wow. These rough coats are much much lower than I expected. Sure it's cumulative to get to the higher levels but I think your going to have a ton of the big guys get there with ease. At the very least Safehold II and Safehold I should be much higher. If not, you'll just need to create another program again which will complicate things more. Or another level above Safehold I.

If you price the safeholds to high then you will price people like me out. And this is already a tall order for me. One thing to consider is each avarice will require a safehold 1 because you need to show one for each. This will make outfitting a group much higher price and will probably chew up plenty of the top end players tokens.

Impy wrote: Could we get a clarification if mythic items will include legendaries as part of their cost? This seems logical to me, as they would be the next step in progression.

If they are part of the recipes then the mythic tokens should not be limited to just certain difficulty runs since the players who make them would be giving up the ability to use their tokens from other difficulty runs.

Mike Steele wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I really like the costs of the safeholds themselves. I think it is very solid. You can spend a total of $200, $600, $1200, $2000, or $3000 to get to each level. I think that's great.

As I think about it, I think the Follower is a tad too expensive, and perhaps should be just a bit lower like $500. I think Mythic I is too expensive and should be closer to $1,500. Remember, you spend $3,000 to be able to craft a Mythic I, so I think $2,000/ea on top of that is a bit steep.

Aren't you basically then pricing each Mythic I at about the cost of a Legendary (which I believe average about $1,500 to transmute)? Breaking the $3000 Stronghold cost down by the 10 Mythic tokens you can make just adds $300 each to them. That seems way too low to me. It seems like the starting point of a Mythic Recipe should be a Legendary token, and then add TG and GP on top of that.

Remember that market value of the most expensive legendary is $1,500 right now. The most expensive eldritch is RoSP at around $4,000. Mythic 1 is more than twice the most expensive out of print eldritch items. For perspective, for $10K, you can buy every eldritch that has been made plus a CoA and have enough left over for 5+ runs at GenCon.

In value selling courses, we teach that one of the ways to see if you found the sweet spot in pricing is if your target customers vocally complain, but mostly end of buying.

In that metric, assuming his target audience are collectors who get at least 1 $8K order just for themselves each year, Jeff nailed the pricing.

Personally, I’m in that group. The transmute costs are very high for the value presented but still at the edge of being reasonable. My question is will it be worth it to wait and just buy one off the resale market at half the cost versus building myself.

One problem with this high transmute cost is I can’t see doing more than 1 at all - as in zero chance probability of doing it. That’s not a good precedent for collectors trying to get 1 of everything as once we realize 4 tokens will be out of reach, it makes the effort to collect others less important as well. It immediately decreased my interest in RoSP parts 1 and 2 (the only missing pieces of UR+ for me that aren’t unique or near unique items.) I was surprised at how quickly those two dots got connected for me. The next logical step is do I really need new onyx sets every year and copies of the components used for multi-year transmutes like the path of enlightenment pieces beyond what is used up in the initial transmute. This probably only applies to a couple dozen of us, though.

I’d recommend lower pricing for making the 2nd+ copy but that begs the problem of the resale market canibalizing new transmutes. That could be prevented by making them soul-bound, though.

I appreciate how the lower levels are accessible for newer players to get, at least, something in this hierarchy.