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TOPIC: Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please!

Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #13

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I very much like where the mecanics are going to, especially Mythic Avarice. However I think if Safehold V is meant for everyone to be able to approach it costs need to come down at least 50%, its more expensive than relics. It will not help new players get into the transmuting system as it is.

Based on recent auctions the price to make a safehold is $387.06

If you want new players to join in, I'd say you want to aim for sub $200.00, maybe even $150 especially since other transmutes still cost money
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #14

Ian Lee wrote: There's going to be a Slot Expander Cap of no more than 10 slot expanders equipped in one build?

What constitutes a slot expander? Is Charm of Glory a slot expander because it expands a slot (what I would assume) or a slot swapper? Do slotless slot expanders, like Hitchhiking, count against this cap?


Every slot expander has text at the top of its desciption at tokendb.com. Here is one from a Charm expander.

This item’s effect stacks with other Charm slot-expanders, but the wearer is still subject to the Slot Expanders Cap of no more than ten Charms.

Check out page 11 in the Player's Handbook.
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Last edit: by Jeff Martin.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #15

The change from Mythic Charm to Mythic Totem of Avarice feels great, but going back to a flat +# of treasure feels lack luster for it also being locked behind Safehold I. Unless perhaps we're about to see a treasure cap?
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #16

Jeff Martin wrote: Every slot expander has text at the top of its desciption at tokendb.com. Here is one from a Charm expander.

This item’s effect stacks with other Charm slot-expanders, but the wearer is still subject to the Slot Expanders Cap of no more than ten Charms.

Check out page 11 in the Player's Handbook.


The way the Mythic Slot Expander is described on page 5 of the PDF isn't very clear to me that it was referring to the existing Charm limit. It almost sounds like there was before unknown limit on Expanders themselves.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #17

Flik wrote: Underling Steward still reads “Apprentice tokens” instead of the new underling tokens.


Thanks!
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Last edit: by Jeff Martin.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #18

Jeff Martin wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: Is there really some benefit to defining all of the specific trade goods? Then you open to arguments that EM is too high and PS is too low and blah, blah, blah. And, every year have to worry about this level of granularity. It's not like only going to have recipes for V, going to have 15 recipes every year for under construction, construction, whatever the thing you can make is.


This opens in two weeks, so we must lock this down soon.


I think what they meant was: why not just require X trade good 1, Y trade good 2, etc? Instead of specifying alchemist ink, mystic silk, etc. Let each person use whichever trade goods they have extra. That way, any adjustments to the recipe in future years will be minor, and you avoid someone trying to save up one resource (darkwood plank) only to have the recipe change the next year such that they have too much darkwood plank and not enough philosopher stone.

Also, I agree that this is not what I thought was meant by affordable. This is relic costs to get in the starter safehold V. Which, I suppose is fine for these 'slotless' bonuses, but this definitely won't draw in casual players...especially with those golden fleece costs.
Could you halve everything at safehold V, bonuses and costs? Let lots more players get in on the safehold V, then ramp up for Safehold IV to be the hardcore players with lots of treasure.
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Last edit: by kurtreznor.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #19

Overall everything is looking really good here. Safehold 5 is a bit more expensive than I would like/have expected. Its right around relic level cost right now which I feel puts it way out of reach of most new players. Even buying 10 packs/year, it's a few years of saving before you can even craft the SH, much less get a hireling.

Also - and I'm sick of saying this - the druid is kinda OP and needs a nerf. maybe -3 damage instead of -5?

edit:
IMPY priced SH5 at ~$325.50 + $60 for 2x golden fleece (a lot more if fleece ever returns to historical norms)
$123.03 for the hireling.

is ~$500 investment to get to one hireling the price we're looking at for new players?
Last edit: by Cassie.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #20

I have some concerns on the power level increase tied to slot expansion from followers combined with direct slotless buffs with 2 separate levels of hirelings and underlings. You’re looking at a minimum of 10% increase in spell damage at no opportunity cost, and I haven’t really tried to exploit the options. Is a big slotless buff the intention of the first 3 stages of safe hold?
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #21

I completely agree. As someone who is still truthfully newer to the game (2019 was my first year...then COVID), I just don't have the same access to mats as people that have been playing for 5+ years. So while this recipe may be cheaper to vets, it is NOT to us newbies. Overall, great feedback IMO.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #22

Page 6 of the PDF states: “There is no limit to the number of Hireling, Follower or Mythic tokens that can be created by a collector so long as they have the required recipe and Benefit tokens. However, your character can only equip one Hireling, one Underling, and one Follower token.”

Should the first Mythic be Underling? And should the second line end with something like “, unless you own Safehold II or Safehold I tokens.”

Questions: Will players be allowed to make more than one Safehold at a given level? Will there be any way to acquire Steward tokens other than by making the associated Safehold? (Besides potentially buying them from another player?) I ask because if each Safehold only comes with 5 Steward tokens, it will not be possible to make more than 5 Hirelings/Underlings/Followers.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #23

Instead of followers, etc, could we focus on one cool journeyman that grows over time without Just buffing my stats?

For example, let me get an initiate Cleric at safehold 5. Maybe he casts Bless in one room as an instant action (roughly UR power level), and then upgrade him to apprentice at safehold IV and now he also adds 20 Healing once / game (similar to FoP Phoenix). Finally at safehold 3, my Cleric becomes journeyman and can make attacks if there isn’t a Cleric in the party (or some other cool ability).


It would hook me much more to get a role play kick out if my follower that maybe even adds something special to a double down run, than just a stack of generic slotless boosts.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 2 months ago #24

I still have all the same concerns I had before, so I won't reiterate them, but will just offer one new (to me) thought:

Requiring players to have a Safehold II/I in order to equip Mythic tokens is a substantial departure from current practice, because it makes them much harder to loan to other players on a run (let alone buy/sell/trade on the secondary market).

I'm sure you must have thought about this, but in today's world it's pretty cool that you can build a LFM adventuring party of people with mixed means, and then help even out the gaps by loaning around some UR/relic/legendary tokens. It's also pretty cool that an individual player who might not be able to afford lots of relics and legendaries can still save up for and either make or buy just that *one* really special token they have their eye on. Those things won't be possible for Mythic tokens as written; if a player just wants to go after their one dream token and not the entire entourage of twelve drummers drumming and seven slots a-swimming, they're out of luck because the one token isn't usable without their own uber-expensive Safehold II/I.

To paint an alternative picture, suppose that requirement were removed. You would still need to build a Safehold II/I to get Mystic Transmuter tokens to *make* Mythic tokens, but once that's accomplished you would also have the option to:

1. loan Mythic tokens to any player on the same run
2. sell/trade Mythic tokens to any player on the secondary market
3. sell/trade Mythic Transmuter tokens to any player on the secondary market

rather than only being able to do those things in cases where the recipient also has (or can borrow) a Safehold II/I.

In addition to feeling more on-theme, it seems to me that these additional options would make building Safeholds even more attractive to those with means.
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