TOPIC: Safehold Program Thoughts?

From my early days of dnd I think the following would be appropriate.

A lot of trade goods and gold to be involved to develop the keep. (Safe hold)

Effect - I know it’s not doable but would love to see minions (NPCs) join the run on the side of adventurers who have them.

“They have a keep! Send in the minions to join the run!”

Can recruit different npcs to your Keep and take them along on adventures with you.

Maybe similar to skull/Rod only once per season?

Ya, won’t happen but would be awesome

One of the wonderful things about True Dungeon is how so many of the higher-level people help the newcomers, who are then inspired to help the next group in turn. Having the Safeholds’ benefits be for the overall party and not just the owner would further encourage that. Think Viking feast-halls or the chivalric noblesse oblige (French for “with great power comes great responsibility”).

From a game world role-playing point of view, the willingness to invest to help others, not just oneself, would be considered proof that one is worthy of being granted land for one’s safehold.

At the end of the adventure (minimizing DM effort during the run), the party heads to the highest level Safehold in the group to get the benefit.
A Level 1 Safehold could have the benefit of healers: If the party won in room 7, any PC who died in room 7 is carried to the Safehold and brought back to life. Everybody’s a Survivor! This would help encourage newer folks, who tend to have fewer HP.
For higher-level Safeholds, previous posts on this thread had some great ideas.

My overall sentiment is excitement at the prospect of a parallel development direction for TD players / characters.

Things I would like to see from Safeholds, from generic to specific:

1. Something to do outside the dungeon and/or in the off season.

2. Something to spend trade goods, monster bits, and fleece on.

3. Something that can connect in-run choices with a broader story and has narrative consequences for what happens in the Safeholds (e.g. maybe there is an opportunity to recruit a follower, or if a certain monster isn't defeated it attacks the safehold).

4. Something that offers a way to drive token demand while slowing down the pace of power creep and slot expansion for characters.

Things I would prefer to avoid in Safeholds:

1. Any advantage from or connection to the player XP system - e.g. all currently active players start at the same place.

2. Content or experiences that are gated behind multiple repeat runs. My friends and I like doing each dungeon once.

I don't mind at all if someone who does each dungeon 5 times has an easier time progressing in Safeholds, but I would not like it if the only way to get to the same Safehold outcome is to do redundant runs of the same dungeons.

3. Things that confuse or place a mental load on new players.

For example, I wouldn't like it if when a mixed party of new players and Safeholders, that new players have a bunch more choices and things to keep track of due to Safeholders.

I would be fine if the benefits were transparent to new players. For instance, if the coach sums up the number of safeholds in the party, records it on the party card, and then something happens later in the dungeon like an NPC interaction due to the number.

4. Insurmountable advantages based on Safehold age.

I think it would be neat if Safeholds were designed so that a player who starts playing in 5 years can "catch up" to whatever the best Safehold is.

If, on the contrary, each Safehold is granted 1 NPC henchperson per year or something, then older Safeholds will always be better than new ones.

Finally - I hope Safeholds can give players, and their characters, new things to "want."

Today Characters "want" things like melee hit and damage, spell damage and healing, save bonuses, etc..

Players "want" treasure and dungeon runs.

I would like it if Safeholds gave Characters something to rank up in other than level/to-hit/to-damage/AC/saves/etc..

Oh - last thing - I want a place for my Spirit Pet Red Dragon to hang out - Can my stronghold be a lair?

Joshua Parde wrote:

Joel Fogelson wrote: Some quick thoughts:

1. Owning a safehold should be transferrable to other players; should have a registry.

2. The level of the safehold should perhaps have special resources given every year in relation to a new token release. This could be trade goods, unique items, and other special tokens that can act as boosts for the transmute process.

3. Offer a discount on transmutes (10/15%) the higher one goes, operating as a marketplace.

4. Titles comport to the landholder, so groups playing in a dungeon may get small bonuses for training or being squires under the lord of the manor.

5. Consider having different buildings available (mines, farms, smiths, temple), which can help generate additional resources or unique weapons/items.

6. More pets. Love animals and pets. Having a farm may let you select a unique pet for your adventures.

1-4 are nice ideas, #5 ...not too interested in a token Farmville

3 actually implements a class system (beyond the physical one we live in) that artifacts already have created in the game. While rewarding more runs (treasure enhancers for purchase) this particular effect would have new player impairment issues.

Titles are interesting, though sound like additional token effects that are just currently unannounced or changeable. Could just change the stronghold effect like the special or wonder effects and randomly draw an unused name from the stronghold pool.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Things I would prefer to avoid in Safeholds:

1. Any advantage from or connection to the player XP system - e.g. all currently active players start at the same place.

2. Content or experiences that are gated behind multiple repeat runs. My friends and I like doing each dungeon once.

I don't mind at all if someone who does each dungeon 5 times has an easier time progressing in Safeholds, but I would not like it if the only way to get to the same Safehold outcome is to do redundant runs of the same dungeons.

3. Things that confuse or place a mental load on new players.

For example, I wouldn't like it if when a mixed party of new players and Safeholders, that new players have a bunch more choices and things to keep track of due to Safeholders.

I would be fine if the benefits were transparent to new players. For instance, if the coach sums up the number of safeholds in the party, records it on the party card, and then something happens later in the dungeon like an NPC interaction due to the number.

4. Insurmountable advantages based on Safehold age.

I think it would be neat if Safeholds were designed so that a player who starts playing in 5 years can "catch up" to whatever the best Safehold is.

If, on the contrary, each Safehold is granted 1 NPC henchperson per year or something, then older Safeholds will always be better than new ones.

Depending on what you mean by a way to catch up, I may be very against the idea. I would hate for this to be a big thing that takes years to achieve, but then new players are allowed to just jump in with a bonus...that would diminish the accomplishments of everyone who has spent 5 years working toward it.

I would like to point out that my idea of exponential/escalating costs does have a kind of catch up mechanic. 2 players who spend the same on TD every year; player A starts working on the safehold year 1, player B starts year 6. Player A will always be 5 YEARS ahead of player B, but eventually the next level will require more than 5 years for these players to achieve, so player B will catch up. Similar to the player XP system, but I imagine the safehold cost increase to be more drastic.

Strongholds provide access to a new card. They are 5/6 cards of “new” classes that primarily sit on current abilities, on new cards. The “fighter” has a use of rage. The “barbarian” has evasion. <insert creativity> These cards are usable a number of times per year equal to the stronghold level, of the class they’re made for. Yes, this means someone might make 12 stronghold 1 for unique classes, or 1 stronghold 5 for 1 class. It could make 12 stronghold 1 for 1 class, though I would hope higher strongholds had other benefits.

Something that struck me reading to here was “what if the cumulative level had an in game effect” so 10 of level 1 or 2 level 5s got a “special dialogue” in runs. 25 and 50 would make it a chase which I’m not sure I would want to see, though I’m sure some would love it.

Just thoughts!

We could use Safeholds as a storage location for all Treasure Enhancers to free up inventory space and get back to balancing based on the idea of no TEs in player builds at top end. Might have an minor impact on people wanting to make Uber Charm of Avarice but it's an idea. With Uber Avarice you do still get + 1 treasure.

Just a thought.

I like the sound of what Fred mentioned, a community benefit of some kind. That would be cool, sort of like at Skullcon with the meta puzzle either everyone got a boon or curse based on meta puzzle (we ended up with both). But something along those lines.

Now a completely opposite thought, what if the Safeholds were aloud to wage war on one another! Sort of like a competitive guild mechanic of some kind.